Flash card advice

[antony]

I’m currently beginning the book set of HSK Standard Course, (my level is between books 3-4, but going through 1 & 2 for the sake it). 

 

Is is it better to: 

 

1) Make physical flash cards, cards written on blank business cards?

2) Put all words into Pleco?

3) Physically write the words in a note book, then put them into Pleco?

4) Print the PDF flash cards provided by HSK Standard Course?

5) Something else...

 

All have benefits and draw backs. My goal regarding characters is reading only. Writing is a daily and lifetime work. I know even Chinese who mostly computer type, sometimes forget how to write them, and that’s after years of daily study and hundreds if not thousands of homework hours. 

 

Writing on cards 20-30 times seems to imprint them into my mind better, but organising SRS is near impossible as the cards begin to stack up. Looking at cards I’ve personally written also aids my memory. Cards are also better for grammar notes. Pleco is far, far, far more convenient and SRS is easy, but misses the actual physical act of writing that’s so important to put a character in my head. Scritter isn’t for me. Never seen the purpose. Pen and paper are just fine, and Pleco’s stroke order just perfect!

 

My gut instinct is to write each character out several times then use the PDF cards provided. 

 

Any thoughts would be most welcome. 

 

Thank you! 

[roddy]

What about using Pleco, but doing sessions where you're shown the pinyin / definition, and you have to write it out by hand?

 

I was going to say welcome to the site, but looks like you've been here before. If you like you could Let us know how you got on and what you're up to this year. 

[Guest realmayo]

1 hour ago, antony said:

Writing on cards 20-30 times seems to imprint them into my mind better

I've found this too ... repetitive writing works. Traditional, tried and tested for hundreds and hundreds of years.

But the downside is it eats up lots of time.

This will sound daft but: I think the attitude you adopt and environment in which you do the writing helps. So: tell yourself each time you write the character that it's a new character, it means x, it sounds like y, now I'm going to write it out happily, and we'll get on fine in the future. Also have a decluttered desk, a pen that works well enough, a nice hardback book with decent paper that makes you feel good about writing in it.

 

Personally I think that if you try to squeeze in a few minutes writing out some characters, on some scrappy paper with a scratchy pen, in a hurry, then the brain will take the hint and think: this isn't an important activity, so I don't need to remember what I'm doing.

 

Then use Pleco or make your own cards on the Anki SRS programme.

[imron]

Any thoughts would be most welcome. 

 

When you are writing characters, instead of writing each one 20-30 times, write the first one once, then the second one once, then the third one once and so on until the end.  Then write the first one the second time, the second one the second time and so on.

 

You'll find you need to engage your brain much more and the characters are more likely to stick.  The reason being that if you write the same character 20-30 times in a row by the 5th time your brain switches to autopilot and stops thinking about what it is doing.  By writing them out one at a time your brain needs to stay far more engaged and you may find you only need to write the character 10 times instead of 30 times to get the same effect.

[Mati1]

antony, the best way to learn characters is the way that you personally like the most.

There are always discussions about which technique might be more efficient. But everyone is different. I don't care if my technique is XX % less efficient than someone else's. The opportunities to keep advancing with characters which I missed are magnitudes higher. Once you have somehing that works for you, it is about perseverence.

 

Personally, I am creating my own paper SRS and I love it. I tried other techniques but didn't like them, or they don't really work for me.

When I tried Anki for something I hated being told what to do, while still having to manually open the decks. When I tried the Pleco SRS (I think there is a newer version now) I didn't like the cards themselves (+ see above). However I didn't bother checking if the cards there can be customized (in a general way). I am also wondering if there is a simpler SRS program that is more like what I'd prefer.

I write my paper SRS cards by hand once. The repetitions are only for remembering, not for writing. I want to do more handwriting in the future but it has a low priority and I think I'll just write and repeat when doing the actual writing.

2 hours ago, antony said:

but organising SRS is near impossible as the cards begin to stack up.

The wonderful thing about my traditional paper SRS approach is that it's foolproof. You can't miss anything, you can't mess it up (unless you don't pay attention); and from my point of view there is no pressure at all: No backlog, no daily schedule etc. Sometimes I invest much more time, sometimes very little, or I don't get a chance that day. It doesn't matter. It's a kind of self organizing memory tool which reflects your memorization progress. I love it

 

Btw. I have two character books but never had printed character cards.

If you want to know more about my SRS you're welcome to ask.

[Shelley]

I would back up imron's advice and suggest using Hanzi Grids ( see imron's post for the link)

 

I  like to use Hanzi Grids to print out the new words of each lesson and write them out. I also use Pleco flashcards, to avoid the piling up of lots of cards and reviews I have a new category for each lesson and go through all the possible test permutations at least once. I will at random times go back and test my self on old lessons and if needed redo the Hanzi grids for that lesson.

I am a believer in the learning by rote, memorising each character. Writing as much as possible to help with "muscle memory" so i write all the answers to questions in my lessons. i also write a little "story" one maybe two paragraphs using as many of the new words as I can.

 

I would say I am suggesting a modified number 3 on your list, but as Mati1 says what is good for one person may not be good for someone else.

 

Try some things, see what works for you, but remember not to spend too much time preparing to study. This is why I like the things I do, they are quick to set up and use, and give me the results I want.

 

[antony]

2 hours ago, realmayo said:

If you like you could Let us know how you got on and what you're up to this year. 

Thanks for the idea! Sounds challenging, although never thought of changing the Pleco test settings. 

 

Yes, been here before, and lurked a fair bit. 

 

This is last year I’ve been using ChinesePod which, although it appears to have lost its active community, (very sad), and community feel with the Cpod presenters, I believe that the teaching has actually improved since its take over and Fiona Tian being presenter. Yet, although Cpod is good, especially Premium subscription, the lack of Modules and structure has often been an issue for me. 

 

Right now I’m revisiting Pimsleur. Even I live in China, and have been the past 6 years, my pronunciation is slipping, as it occasionally does. Nothing improves my pronunciation like Pimsleur. I also have the HSK Standard Course I’m about to begin. Just ordered some Chinese Breeze books and currently enjoying Country of the Blind by Mandarin Companion. I may go to Basic subscription on Cpod. Such great content. 

 

I have all the Chinese Made Easier books, which I dip in and out of, but the grammar sections are way too technical. Much prefer AllSetLearning’s Gammar Wiki by John Pasden. He makes grammar actually enjoyable. 

 

I’m hoping the HSK course will help give some clarity, structure and forward looking focus to my studies. This past year has been a little messy. 

 

Thanks for asking!

[antony]

2 hours ago, realmayo said:

now I'm going to write it out happily,

Thanks for your reply. 

 

I 100% agree. Attitude, frame of mind, enviroment are all so key. And as you say, ‘happiness,’ it’s so important. When I memorise text, I do it happily, loudly and enthusiastically. Crazy, but it works. 

[antony]

Shelly, Mati1 & imron, 

 

Thank you for your replies. Some very good suggestions here. I’ll think these things over. But stretching muscle memory sounds real good. 

 

Mati1, I’d love to know about your SRS system if you have the time, 

[Flickserve]

Being less efficient but happy with learning sounds like a good trade off.

 

3 hours ago, antony said:

Even I live in China, and have been the past 6 years,

 

Do you go around looking at Chinese characters a lot in daily life? Either out of necessity or interest? I imagine that would be helpful for imprinting.

 

 

[antony]

5 hours ago, Flickserve said:

Do you go around looking at Chinese characters a lot in daily life? Either out of necessity or interest? I imagine that would be helpful for imprinting.

I find it not so much that I’m looking but noticing more characters the more that I study them. 

 

I remember memorising the radicals a couple of years back and then seeing the breakdown in characters everywhere. A very interesting experience. Highly recommended. 

[Shelley]

10 hours ago, antony said:

remember memorising the radicals a couple of years back and then seeing the breakdown in characters everywhere. A very interesting experience. Highly recommended. 

 

If you enjoy that aspect of chinese characters, you might like to download the Outlier dictionary for Pleco. It has very good character component breakdown. It is a whole new approach to the way chinese characters are constructed.

Have a look here https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/45912-outlier-linguistic-solutions/?tab=comments#comment-346309

[antony]

15 hours ago, Shelley said:

download the Outlier dictionary for Pleco

I’ve taken a look Shelly and I’m impressed. I sure do find this subject thoroughly fascinating. There are two areas ‘all things China’ I especially enjoy, one being the Cultural Revolution and the other, Chinese writing and its history. So this may well go on my purchase list. 

 

I did read part of your blog, and really enjoyed reading your ‘Learning Schedule for NPCR.’ I shall read it again later. I find looking at how others study cannot only present new ideas but also encouraging as study, self-study or otherwise, can have its dry spells. 

 

Thank you. 

[Shelley]

I too really enjoy learning characters and their history. You might enjoy this topic, in my latest post I have added links to a radio show and a YouTube video about the author and his subject.

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/54994-the-chinese-typewriter/?tab=comments#comment-424688

 

One of the things he talks about is the chinese "invention" of predictive text, the whole thing is interesting if a bit academic.