Arriving on a tourist visa and converting to a work visa

[MBAchina]

Hi guys,

 

I'm getting an ESL teaching job offer in China, but the school wants me to go on a visitor visa and then they will convert it into a work visa once in China. I do not want to do this. Even though I have a degree from the U.S., my passport is from a non-native English speaking country and also I will cover all my expenses to arrive to China, they will just give me a "bonus" at the end of the contract for my return ticket. I am scared of not getting the work visa, pay all this money and then of course I will have to pay for my own return ticket, I believe.

 

They're saying that it is extremely difficult to get a work visa form the U.S. as I have to send my original degree, and all my original documents to China. I am not reading this anywhere online.

 

What do you guys think?

 

What documents do I REALLY need for a work visa?

[洋人丹]

I'm not up-to-date on everything, but I'm pretty sure you can't do that anymore. You have to get the work visa done in your own country, you can't go into China on a tourist visa and then switch to a work visa without returning home.

 

It's very shady that they are saying you should come to China on a tourist visa since it doesn't work that way anymore. The other thing is them saying they need your original degree. In the past  (though this was many years ago) when I did a work visa I just had a photocopied version and it was fine. I've never heard of anyone saying they needed an original, though that might be different from before. 

 

Regardless, it sounds shady. You should come to China on a work visa after all the paperwork has been done. That's the way it works now.

[MBAchina]

Thanks for your reply!

 

The Chinese consulate website does say that I need the original documents, but it does not say that I have to send them or that they will send them to China. If there is a consulate in my country, I see no reason to send all my original documents to China.

 

It is a very tricky way to do it, they're saying and I've read of very few people doing it this way. I would have to go to HK, which is technically an exit of China, and then go back to China. But that also, is a problem too, because don't want to pay for anything, so the application process takes like a week. That would be a week on my expense in HK which is very expensive.

 

Thanks again, I agree with you too...

[vellocet]

This sort of thing just screams dodgy school.  They're going to give you the run-around and you'll end up going to HK every two months...at your own expense.  Give them the finger and find another school with proper visas.  Plus post their name on English teaching forums so that everyone knows to stay away. 

[ChTTay]

Definitely not a job offer to pursue. As above, they may just get you to come to China then keep you on the wrong visa while you work illegally.

You don't have to send original documents to China. You don't even need the originals when you are in China in person. Colour photocopies are good enough. They are just telling you that to make going to China a more appealing option.

I would say that the end of contract bonus or flight ticket payment is completely standard. If you get a legitimate offer, it will likely include this as well. Not too many schools will pay for your flights in advance in case you don't show up or you show up and quit before your contract ends.

Usually schools just require you to send them scans of your passport, criminal record check (to show you don't have a record), degree certificate, any teaching cert. you have, a copy of your CV and references. As the process continues some people are asked to do a medical in their home countries to bring with them.

You definitely don't want to be in a position of going in and out of HK as they would probably just stop giving you a visa. For you to know, a visa shouldn't take a week in HK. If you do it right you can do it in 3 days (arrive on day 1, apply morning of day 2, pick up and depart HK on day 3).

You have another thread in the teaching forum about finding a job as well, right?

[MBAchina]

Thank you both Vellocet and ChTTay,

 

Yes, I do have another thread. I opened this one because it is a different topic, so the other one is about finding a job, and this one about getting you guys opinion on their proposal.

 

I totally inexperience on this, so I'd like as much information as possible before making this big step...

 

Thanks again!

[ChTTay]

So far both the situations you described aren't ideal but the first job (in your other thread) that offered you a work Visa and 10k seems a lot better in light of this second job. I can't recall the location but if it's in a 2nd tier or less city then it's still not a bad offer at all.

 

As I mentioned, the fact that your passport isn't from a native speaking country will count against you regardless of how 'native' your accent is. You may have to accept a job with a drawback (like no accomodation stipend). As I said before, it would probably be easier to look at places 'not on the tourist trail' that are more likely to be able to bend the rules.

 

Whatever you do, don't proceed if something seem a bit shady. Definitely don't leave the U.S until you've got the right visa in your passport. It's just not worth taking the risk of flying to China on the promise of a school being able to 'convert' your visa OR sending you to HK.

[MBAchina]

Sorry, but it's the same job. When they first interviewed me, they said we would do the work visa from here, but now they're saying to go on a visitor visa and do the work visa from there. 

 

They are telling me to send all my original documents to China, so they can send me a letter for the work visa. Is this true?

 

Also, what about the health check? They're saying I have to do a health check, but they are not sending me any form for the hospital to fill out or anything.

 

Some more help, will be appreciated guys!

 

Thanks,

[ChTTay]

Forget this job and move on.

 

Health check - I did mine in China. This forum has a few topics on the issue so have a search around.

 

Original documents - as above, definitely do not send your original documents to some random school in China. You probably will never see them again.

[TheShadowBroker]

Date of application:  07/31/2015

Nationality:  Canadian

Visa applied for:

Work (M)

Previous visa history: NONE

 

Hello everyone, I have a similar situation but slightly different.  I thought I would post it here.  I am currently still in Canada.  I signed a contract for a job in Shenzhen to teach english for 10 months.

 

Training starts Aug 20th and I signed my contract on July 28th.  The lady who hired me said there was not enough time to apply for a Z visa and sent me an invite letter for an F visa to be an "Education Consultant."

 

 

Contract start date is Sept 1 2015.  I got an email back from the Visa Agency here in Canada saying they are applying for an 9 year Multiple entry "M" visa for me despite having put 3 month "F" Visa on the form.

 

The lady who hired me told me she would apply for a "Z" visa on August 29th when training was complete.  I asked her if I could "convert" my "M" visa and she said, "No worries we will apply for brand new separate "Z" visa when you arrive."

 

She also stated that because they were applying for the "Z" I could work under the "M" until the "Z" arrives 30days after I get to ShenZhen.

 

Is this a likely scenario?  Do you think they will apply for the "Z" that I can just pick up in HK?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  
 

[ChTTay]

It depends how comfortable you are teaching on the wrong Visa (working illegally) and how much you trust the school / this lady to actually follow through with the promise to get you the Z work visa (to enable you to get the right residence permit.).

If they don't get you the right visa or are slow about it, then you'll end up in a difficult situation. Also, if the police came to check in your school and you were working there, you might take the brunt of any punishment (fines, deportation) not the school. Another variable would be how good a relationship the school have with the local authorities.

As for "converting", I've never found definitive information on how / when you can or cannot switch a visa. It seems like Universities can change an L visa to an X (then on to a perminant residence permit) for example, and I know people who've gone from a work residence permit to a study one but who couldn't go from study to work without leaving. Often people confuse the issue by thinking that going to HK is "converting" a residence permit or visa. In fact, it's cancelling one and applying again from scratch.

Really, the school just want you there as soon as possible because they need a certain number of teachers for when the term starts. If they can't get the right visa in time, they might see it as an acceptable risk just to get a teacher in on any visa they can. It's either that, or be one teacher short. You will need to think if the risk is acceptable for you too.

[muyongshi]

Maybe a bit too late to this conversation, but if you want a z visa at this point, you need to do it in your home country before leaving.

The requirements are written to only require copies of (sorry slippery fingers) the documents until you arrive. It is perfectly set up to allow you to apply for the alien employment license (that leads to the z visa) from your home country. The other benefit of doing it this way, is that it puts the burden on them and is a great way to tell how much they are actually wanting you to come.

[MidnightFoxFire]

Personally, I wouldn't go without a work visa. Mine only took 3 days to get - dropped it off Mon, Picked it up Wed and I fly to China next week. 

The original school I was supposed to work for was recently busted for not following proper hiring procedures. And unqualified teachers. 

[MBAchina]

Great info, thanks guys!

[hmdesl]

I'm looking to move to China to teach English and am in the job search process. I've noticed some schools offer to help get your work visa once you arrive on a regular tourist visa. I'm guessing the visa process might vary depending on which province the school is in. I know the best option would be to apply for the visa before I leave, but can someone tell me if you can really switch your tourist to a working visa? What are some of the things to keep in mind if you're going this route? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[MangoESL]

@hmdesl

 

You can't convert from a tourist visa to a work visa. You're either being scammed or would be sent to Hong Kong to try and apply. Hong Kong may refuse your application and tell you to go back to your home country. You're more likely to be rejected in Hong Kong at this point due to current political events.

 

If you're sent to back to your home country you may need to wait another 3 months to apply due to the new work permit system being unable to switch application visa offices and the original application taking 3 months to expire. (I have not confirmed this but I've heard it a few times recently)

 

Get your Z-Visa before you come!

[ChTTay]

... we have a teacher who just converted L to Z though. Beijing. 

[MangoESL]

@ChTTay How? What is your school? Was there any special circumstances? Was the teacher married to a Chinese citizen?

[ChTTay]

It’s a mistake to ever generalize in China.

 

In this instance, it’s nothing special. No

marriage. Just someone who’s in country looking to convert. Perhaps we have good Guanxi. 

 

They did have to  write a letter about their plans and feelings for China.