Some questions on page 1 of 西游计

[fenlan]

I have an eclectic reading style. A page of this, a page of that, whatever takes my fancy at the time. I have dipped into 西游计, for which I have a parallel Chinese-English text, but always run into difficulties on page 1. I think the poems or extended classical quotations are more difficult than the prose text in this novel. I have got a feeling that the first few pages of 西游计 are harder than the rest of the book and have put off many a reader. Can someone explain the following:

1. 自从盘古破鸿蒙，开辟从兹清浊辨。This means, "once Pangu destroyed the Enormous Vagueness, the separation of clear and impure began". From the translation I can basically understand the sentence apart from cong2zi1. Apparently 兹 means "this, now, year". What does cong2zi1 mean?

2. 覆载群生仰至仁, meaning "living things have always tended towards humanity". I found some weird vocabulary in ABCD, eg 覆载 means "heaven and earth". But fu4 means "cover" and zai3 means "carry, or fill". Why should fu4zai3 mean "heaven and earth"?

3. 盖闻天地之数，有十二万九千六百岁为一元。This means "in the arithmetic of the universe, 129,600 years make one cycle". I can't understand "盖闻天". GGonline, in the thread on 中国农民调查 said that 盖 can be a 发语词 meaning "oh". But this is at the beginning of the book, after one poem, and I can't see why a book would start with "oh". 闻 means "hear, smell", but here it seems to mean "according to". Is that right? So the overall sentence should really be translated, "well, according to the arithmetic of heaven and earth..."?

[studentyoung]

Let me try one by one.

1. 自从盘古破鸿蒙，开辟从兹清浊辨。This means, "once Pangu destroyed the Enormous Vagueness, the separation of clear and impure began". From the translation I can basically understand the sentence apart from cong2zi1. Apparently 兹 means "this, now, year". What does cong2zi1 mean?

“兹”here means “this, i.e. 这，此”, so“ 从兹”here means “从此”.

2. 覆载群生仰至仁, meaning "living things have always tended towards humanity". I found some weird vocabulary in ABCD, eg 覆载 means "heaven and earth". But fu4 means "cover" and zai3 means "carry, or fill". Why should fu4zai3 mean "heaven and earth"?

Yes, “覆载”here means “天地”, its extending meaning.

3. 盖闻天地之数，有十二万九千六百岁为一元。This means "in the arithmetic of the universe, 129,600 years make one cycle". I can't understand "盖闻天". GGonline, in the thread on 中国农民调查 said that 盖 can be a 发语词 meaning "oh". But this is at the beginning of the book, after one poem, and I can't see why a book would start with "oh". 闻 means "hear, smell", but here it seems to mean "according to". Is that right? So the overall sentence should really be translated, "well, according to the arithmetic of heaven and earth..."?

“闻”here means “be told, known, i.e. 听闻”. “数”here means “law, nature, i.e. 数理”. “天地”here means “nature, univeres i.e.自然,宇宙”, its extending meaning. So the sentence should be translated, “Well, it is told / said that the law of nature / universe…”

By the way, it should be 《西游记》, not 《西游计》.

Thanks!

[fenlan]

Thank you! I am still not sure why Yes, 覆载 has 天地 as an extended meaning. Is it because "cover" can mean "heaven, sky", and the 载 meaning "fill"is containeed by the sky?

[eddiewouldgo]

覆載 覆蓋/乘載 covered by heaven and riding on earth.

[chenpv]

i am really impressed by your chinese appreciation background and it is really something to ask such high level questions. i admire it.

your understanding of 覆载 is right. we chinese (especially 文言文) usually use part of a thing or its characteristic to stand for it.

the sky is above the world and it covers everything. so there is a slice meaning of ' rein ' and ' rule ' if we are referring to 'cover'. Because of the awe to the sky, people then believed their destinies are predisposed by the sky and nobody can change his fate. so gradually, the deities they believed in happened to live in the sky and sky became the representative of 'deities'------------ just like what u guys used in the west, the Heaven

and the earth is below the world and it BEARs everything. I use the word 'bear' for the sake that earth is not only physically supports everything on it but also 'fosters' or 'breeds' them on it. so ancient chinese believe the earth is the mother of everything living or non-living and it should be the place where all of them come from and finally go to.

in a sense of that, ancient chinese used the 2 verbs 'cover' and 'bear' to describe '天'‘地’