没有

[agines124]

I need to put ( 没有) in a proper place :

他 A 今年夏天 B 和爸爸 C 一起 D 回家乡。

 I don't know which answer is okay . Can you help me?

[anonymoose]

So do then.

[agines124]

I think it's A or B but I don't know which one is ok

[gwr71]

 

2 hours ago, agines124 said:

I need to put ( 没有) in a proper place :

他 A 今年夏天 B 和爸爸 C 一起 D 回家乡。

 I don't know which answer is okay . Can you help me?

 

I am a new student(newbie)  to Mandarin.  I have been directed to get books on chinese  grammer and learn the rules. I have a lot of headaches with the referred text but the first rule is the word order in chinese mandarin.(this is for most sentences but there are many exceptions):

the answer you can figure out  for yourself

S                                   T                  Manner                    Plc                            Neg                 Aux                       Verb        Complement            object

subject                    time                 adverb               place word(s)     (bu or mei)   auxillary verb              

         

so just from the word order A is not the correct place to put it.  In my opinion It is not B either . look at C or D.  

Then I read the sentence and it seemed to follow a sentence pattern I already met. In the pattern the subject and another person ( his father ) already ( yi ding)..... The verb is placed normally after yiding. It is most likely D.

I may interprete the sentence as follows:

"He and his father have not already returned home/family this summer". 

If I am wrong I put it up to learning.  I don't mind being wrong and having someone who is an advance learner correct me. Let me know what is the answer.

good luck.

Please note after complement is object.

[Shelley]

1 hour ago, anonymoose said:

So do then

I agree with this

 

 

@gwr71 think you should have stopped at actually saying:

 

20 minutes ago, gwr71 said:

It is most likely D

 

I think this is homework and should have been done by the OP, the info you gave was excellent help for the OP to work it out themself.

 

As I said in the OPs other post https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/55179-which-sentence-is-correct/?tab=comments#comment-425474 that seemed like homework, what's your best answer?

[gwr71]

I again agree. I should have stopped at the word order.  I will not make that mistake again.  You are a wise person.

[陳德聰]

@gwr71 I don’t think the answer is D. I suspect your word order is incorrect because of where you put negation.

 

A) 他沒有今年夏天和爸爸一起回家鄉

 

B) 他今年夏天沒有和爸爸一起回家鄉

 

C) 他今年夏天和爸爸沒有一起回家鄉

 

D) 他今年夏天和爸爸一起沒有回家鄉

 

Answer should be B. The dad went home but the person in question did not go home with the dad.

[gwr71]

I take note and always welcome constructive criticisms but the word order I stated is correct. Check your grammer books.  I believe it is the lack of understanding the word order and it's exceptions that is keeping non-native chinese speakers from mastering the language. It would mean that the interpretation of what is said into english may not be correct but very close.  I still say in my defence that grammatically D is the logical choice.

[lips]

39 minutes ago, 陳德聰 said:

他今年夏天和爸爸一起沒有回家鄉

This doesn't sound natural to my ears.

[gwr71]

4 minutes ago, lips said:

n

Dear Lips,

I would like you to translate the sentence for me.  I am always willing to learn from others.

[gwr71]

I am re-learning the novice level (A1) or HSK 1.  The books I am using is PAVC 1 and A Course in Contemporary Chinese 1.  From the latter it explained in brief the PTS or Principles of Temporal Sequence.  it says " components of a sentence in chinese are lined up in accordance with the sequence of time......PTS then helps explain why "cause" is always place before "consequence" in chinese.

if I mis-interpreted the above then I would like to be corrected as I can learn from it.

[lips]

19 minutes ago, gwr71 said:

translate the sentence for me

他今年夏天和爸爸一起沒有回家鄉

 

Since this is not natural (to my ears anyway), I'd have to clarify the meaning before I could translate.

[gwr71]

My interpretation was given earlier.  Since I am new to chinese mandarin and grammer and going through the basics of translating chinese sentences I welcome your input. I am taking it very slowly .  

 

Note from the book I stated earlier: one exception to the general word order  is where there is an existential sentence.  It is usually involved with a verb of appearing( coming)  or disappearing ( going) or presence. Then specific rules may apply as to where to place the topic of the sentence either before or after the verb.  I really had to read that section over about 10 times before it sank in but still I don't fully understand it at this time.

 

I look forward to your reply.  

[lips]

1 hour ago, 陳德聰 said:

B) 他今年夏天沒有和爸爸一起回家鄉

 

1 hour ago, 陳德聰 said:

Answer should be B

It is most natural to my ears (albeit I know next to nothing about Chinese grammar).  The literal translation works here.

[gwr71]

Dear Lips,

I doubt that.  From your history and posting I would say you are well versed in chinese mandarin.

PTS always work in chinese sentences with limited exceptions.

 

From an English perspective compare (please correct me where I am wrong, I am not being modest):

 

he this summer and his father already have not (D)  returned home...

 He this summer have not(B)  and his father already returned home...

 

Please check your grammer references and get back to me.  it may be that you have to rekindle the grammer rules you already know.

I look forward to your conclusion.

 

[lips]

Translation is best done by rewriting the meaning in the target language.  That's why I need to clarify the meaning of the sentence first (since the sentence in question is an unnatural use of the language).  If I must, I would try "this summer he did not go home with his father". 

[gwr71]

isn't  the character 和  means " and " not "with". If 和 means "and" then your sentence cannot make sense.  if it is " with" then it makes more sense.  I did mis-interprete something I incorrectly stated yi ding when it was yiqi ( together).  I will also consult my books.

 

[陳德聰]

@gwr71

I should have been more explicit: B is the correct answer.

 

和...一起 is the same as 跟...一起, and “with” is an appropriate translation of “和” in this construction. Whether you interpret this as a “manner,” which I have no comment on, will affect what conclusion you come to regarding where to put the 沒有.

 

[imron]

7 hours ago, gwr71 said:

 I still say in my defence that grammatically D is the logical choice.

Not according to the logic of Mandarin.

 

As you mentioned, I think part of the problem here is your misunderstanding of 一起 which is no way is pronounced 'yi ding' and in no way means 'already'.  Rather, it is pronounced 'yīqǐ' and means 'together with'

 

The correct answer is definitely B.

 

 

 

[gwr71]

Dear All,

I agree I was wrong on my translation and agree that it is more:" together with father" and not "and his father" as I was proposing.

I am not above getting corrected as I am a newbie. So my apologies.  I did not deliberately intend to mislead anyone.

 

My outline of the Chinese Word Order is still correct, however my interpretation of the sentence was incorrect.  I will have to go over my grammer book.