Why is there no 着 in this sentence?

[agines124]

I am reading a story and I've noticed a sentence 站在旁边的人听到他的话，都暗暗发笑。 I'm wondering why there is no 着 in this sentence .  I would say 站着在旁边的人 ... 

Does anyone one can explain this to me?

[somethingfunny]

Hello,

 

In the last 24 hours you've started four new topics in this sub-forum, two of which both have the same name.  If you're working your way through something and anticipate having a lot of questions, you may want to consider starting one topic and tell us more about what it is you are doing and what kind of questions you think you're going to be coming up with.  

 

As with most of the stuff you've posted, there is no context here, making it difficult to provide any accurate feedback.  Perhaps you could tell us why you think there should be a 着 in this place.  着 is used generally used with a verb to indicate that the verb is currently occurring, or occurring simultaneously with another verb, however, this does not mean it must always be used when this is the case.

[Shelley]

I also wonder what the app/textbook is that you are using, either it doesn't explain grammar well or at all or you are missing something in the lessons. Usually when I come across a new grammar pattern or usage my text book explains it and shows me examples.

 

Maybe you should have a look at grammar wiki here: https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/

 

As @somethingfunny says there is not enough context to make helpful suggestions.

 

[agines124]

@ShelleyActually, I'm studying chinese . I have lessons with a native speaker from Taiwan. Sometimes when I ask her about anything she replies ; You should feel how to use it. That's why I have so many questions about grammar.  I'm not a chinese native speaker and I can't feel how to use some structures .

[Shelley]

Well if that was my teacher and that was her response to my questions I would change teachers.

 

I am a native English speaker, I do not know the complete grammar terms or rules for English, but I use grammar correctly. If someone asks me why something is said this way or that way,  I only know it is that way and it has always been said that way and "it sounds right to my ear". But make no mistake,  there will be a grammatical rule, pattern, or usage.

 

This is the problem with native speakers who have not trained to be a teacher.

 

Are you using a textbook or any form of lesson plans? Using a textbook or similar teaches what you need as you need it.

 

I use the textbook New Practical Chinese Reader, it is available in both simplified and traditional and covers reading, writing, speaking, and listening. There are audio mp3, YouTube videos, workbooks. You might want to look at my blog (below in my signature) to see more about NPCR and other methods of study I use. There is also a great app called HelloChinese which is free, there is some paid premium content but the free content is very good and covers lots of useful things including grammar. Have a look here https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/49944-hellochinese-–-new-chinese-mandarin-learning-app-learn-chinese-speak-chinese/

 

 

 

 

[edelweis]

4 hours ago, somethingfunny said:

you may want to consider starting one topic

I am perplexed by this because Roddy suggested the opposite here: https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/54993-please-help-decipher-this-sentence/?do=findComment&comment=424760

 

I have no idea about the reason for the lack of 着.

But according to google search,

“站着在*的人“ has 7 results.

“站在*的人“ has 8 million results.

[Lu]

37 minutes ago, agines124 said:

I have lessons with a native speaker from Taiwan. Sometimes when I ask her about anything she replies: You should feel how to use it.

Perhaps you could consider looking for a different teacher, one who has some training and experience teaching foreigners. Not every native speaker is a good teacher (because it's difficult to explain the 'why' of one's own language).

 

ETA: When in doubt, go with what Roddy says :-D It's a good idea to start new threads for new topics. If, on the other hand, you have questions about one article/book/chapter, it can be useful to concentrate them in one topic. But generally, for the poster: do what you think is best and don't worry too much. For the reader: if you think something is not great, consider reporting it so a moderator can look into it.

[somethingfunny]

For multiple topics - it was a suggestion, do whatever you want.

 

For naming your topics something other than "Difference" and providing a bit more context, I standby my comments.

 

As for your teacher, I agree with the above responses.  Some students find the "accept it now and you'll get a feel for it eventually" line works for them.  People tried it on me and I hated it.  Then I got a teacher who knew what they were talking about and it was awesome.

[roddy]

Ideally we'd want to see a new topic for each question - but that's on the assumption it's a good question. Where did you come across this question, what do you think the answer is, why aren't you sure, what reading have you done to try and figure it out, etc. If you're just typing out the question and saying 'what's the right answer' it's not particularly interesting to read and in that case I'd rather see them in one topic. 

[Michelle Su]

usage："站在"+人/地方，"站着"不能+人/地方

 

 

 

 

[somethingfunny]

Hi Michelle, your notation is a little unclear - perhaps you could provide a few illustrative examples.

[vincenthpan]

When  ’着"and "在” are markers of progressive tense, you just can't put them together in one sentence. 

他在玩游戏=== 他玩着游戏 ==  He is playing the game.   

[somethingfunny]

It's not immediately clear to me that in the sentence:

 

站在旁边的人听到他的话，都暗暗发笑

 

that 在 is being used in the progressive tense.  Wouldn't it need to be something like:

 

在站他旁边的人听到他的话，都暗暗发笑

 

for that to be the case?

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm in agreement that having 着 and 在 next to each other seems wrong, but now I'm thinking about this progressive tense business.

[lips]

Special cases of 在 following verbs

 

[陳德聰]

Typically we would call that aspect, not tense.

 

As for why the 著 doesn’t belong, I am having a hard time thinking of any verb that is followed by a location phrase being able to put an aspect marker in between the verb and 在.

 

Chinese grammar wiki lists this type of construction as an exception to the rules of 在 usage... but I am less willing to accept that analysis. Seems lazy.

 

It actually seems to me that in these constructions the 在 is highly sensitive to the verb’s semantic properties and the fact that we can see aspect being attached after 在 but not before it (e.g. 站在了旁邊) made me search up this paper, which does not provide a super satisfactory answer, but at least someone somewhere was also thinking about “aspect and the post-verbal zài phrase”.

 

Just heading to bed now but I’d like to read it soon and report back.