Sweet and sour - what do you call it?

[Christa]

Hi everyone,

 

Crazy, obsessed food girl here!  

 

I have another (hopefully not too annoying) question for you all.

 

It's just that, well, undoubtedly one of the Chinese dishes that westerners are most obsessed with (although the Chinese themselves certainly aren't) is sweet and sour. The thing is, what do you call it in Chinese? It seems to me that anywhere influenced by Cantonese calls it 咕咾 /咕嚕 (gūlǎo/gūlǔ) but in Taiwan I've heard it called 糖醋 (táng cù) which makes more logical sense to me.

 

Now, I realise that sweet and sour is a very generic term that covers a number of styles of sauce but I'm just wondering, what is used where you are? In Taiwan, I found that 糖醋 (táng cù) was used to refer to all of them. What do you guys think of it? Is it a generally good term to use to get that sort of dish no matter where you are in China. 咕咾 /咕嚕 (gūlǎo/gūlǔ) seems to me much too regional but I'd love to know what everyone else thinks.

 

Christina

[Lu]

To my knowledge, 糖醋 means 'sweet and sour', 咕咾肉 the name of a dish that contains meat, pineapple and pepper, with sweet and sour sauce. 糖醋 can be used in all kinds of dish names, such as 糖醋里脊.

[stapler]

Also, I know plenty of Chinese that really like 咕噜肉 and freely order it. So all white people feeling guilty about not being authentic, you now have permission to go

for it!

[Christa]

1 hour ago, Lu said:

 咕咾肉 the name of a dish that contains meat, pineapple and pepper, with sweet and sour sauce.

 

That's interesting and seems correct to me. But then does that mean that, when ordering food, one would not use 糖醋?

 

34 minutes ago, stapler said:

Also, I know plenty of Chinese that really like 咕噜肉 and freely order it. So all white people feeling guilty about not being authentic, you now have permission to go

for it!

 

That's funny. Are they overseas Chinese or still back in the old country? My experience has been that Chinese people back home don't eat it very often. Maybe it's a regional thing.

 

Anyway, maybe as I often do, I should re-phrase the original question.

 

If you were in China and wanted to order "sweet and sour pork" (I'll be no more specific than that) what term would you use?

[Lu]

Just now, Christa said:

But then does that mean that, when ordering food, one would not use 糖醋?

Not if one orders 咕咾肉, but one would if one ordered certain other dishes, such as 糖醋里脊. Some dishes have proper names (such as 咕咾肉), some have names that are simply their description (such as 糖醋里脊). I'm not aware of a rule that the term 糖醋 cannot be used in dishes.

[Christa]

2 minutes ago, Lu said:

Not if one orders 咕咾肉, but one would if one ordered certain other dishes, such as 糖醋里脊. Some dishes have proper names (such as 咕咾肉), some have names that are simply their description (such as 糖醋里脊). I'm not aware of a rule that the term 糖醋 cannot be used in dishes.

 

Another interesting reply. So, if one went into a restaurant that offered  咕咾肉 and, being unable to read the menu, the foreigner asked for 糖醋豬肉, do you think they would bring them the  咕咾肉?

[stapler]

Well I’ve never seen it for sale in China. And so I think it’s correct to say in this sense that Chinese people aren’t obsessed with it. But here in Australia I always see Chinese people order it. I know some people from Shanghai, Suzhou (these two regions tend have lots of sweet food in my experience), Wuhan, and Malaysia who all order it here. And one person from Jiangxi who hates it. Yeah it’s not a traditional dish, but like butter chicken and Indians, they still eat it even if not back home ;)

 

If you need proof just type 咕噜肉 into google and you’ll see that lots of Chinese are making it themselves 

[Lu]

1 hour ago, Christa said:

So, if one went into a restaurant that offered  咕咾肉 and, being unable to read the menu, the foreigner asked for 糖醋豬肉, do you think they would bring them the  咕咾肉?

Possibly not, because 咕咾肉 includes not just meat but also pineapple and pepper. But perhaps you should just go and try it out, I can't speak for all the restaurants in China and am only a recreational eater.

[889]

There are two basic kinds of sweet-and-sour sauces: those with something tomato in it and those without. 咕咾whatever is usually tomato-based, 糖醋whatever often is not, but you have to ask to be sure. Tomato stuff is more likely to show up in the south.

 

Nothing wrong with eating 咕咾肉 as such, just that it's like ordering a pig in a poke: too often the breading dominates and the "肉" is mostly fat. Ordering 糖醋里脊 is a better bet, but still a gamble.

[imron]

3 hours ago, Lu said:

the foreigner asked for 糖醋豬肉, do you think they would bring them the  咕咾肉?

You never really see 糖醋豬肉, it's always 糖醋里脊, so if you asked for what you'd wrote you'd probably get strange looks and some discussion to clarify what you actually want.

 

Also although 糖醋里脊 and 咕咾肉 are similar, they are different dishes with different ingredients, different methods of cooking and different tastes.  It's unlikely that they would bring out a different dish without first saying something "oh, we don't have that dish, but maybe try this one is a little bit similar".

[abcdefg]

8 hours ago, Christa said:

...sweet and sour. The thing is, what do you call it in Chinese?

 

糖醋。As in 糖醋排骨。Sweet and sour ribs 糖醋排骨 are popular everywhere in China that I've ever been (north, south, east, west.)

 

Quote

If you were in China and wanted to order "sweet and sour pork" (I'll be no more specific than that) what term would you use?

 

I just now searched recipes on Baidu for sweet and sour pork, and most of what I found were more specific, such as 糖醋排骨，糖醋里脊，糖醋肉块，etc. When a recipe was labeled just 糖醋肉 or 糖醋猪肉, it went on to specify what cut of meat was intended. 

 

[Publius]

Our inquisitive gourmet strikes again!  I also LOLed at Lu's 'recreational eater'.

 

I call 咕咾肉 Gu Lao Rou.  It seems different in preparation and taste.  And since it has its own name, why not use it?

Otherwise it would be just 糖醋XX, such as 糖醋鲤鱼, which I quite like.

[vellocet]

Honestly I always thought sweet and sour was a Cantonese taste, not all over China.  The one exception I'm aware of is the Northeastern dish 锅包肉 which depending on where you are, may be served with a sweet sauce.  I've had it dry though and it's still good.  Foreigners' favorite, along with 回锅肉.

[imron]

糖醋里脊 is all over the north.

[Christa]

Ooh, this is all so interesting. Just the sort of stuff I like. Thank you everybody 

 

2 hours ago, Publius said:

Our inquisitive gourmet strikes again!  I also LOLed at Lu's 'recreational eater'.

 

Yes, I also laughed at this. Does that make me a professional eater?

 

2 hours ago, imron said:

糖醋里脊 is all over the north.

 

糖醋排骨 does also seem to be available quite widely in China, as abcdefg says, although I don't see it so much in Chinatowns in the west. Normally, I think Chinatowns mostly have 咕咾肉.

 

By the way, does anyone know what the 咾 from 咕咾肉 means? Is it a Cantonese character? I don't recognise it at all.

 

 

[889]

Probably a euphemism for 鬼佬肉 .

[Publius]

https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/咕嚕肉

原名古滷肉，因其滷汁可循環使用而成古滷

[Christa]

8 minutes ago, Publius said:

https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/咕嚕肉

原名古滷肉，因其滷汁可循環使用而成古滷

 

So, 咾 means "stewed"?

[somethingfunny]

I've never really liked 糖醋里脊 as I find that cut of meat a bit unpleasant.  In fact, I think I remember being in a restaurant once where someone specifically asked for a different type of meat - I think it might have been chicken.  Anyway, the staff seemed a bit put out ("this way of cooking is supposed to be done with 里脊, not chicken" etc.) but they did make it.

 

I find most places go a bit too heavy on the vinegar as well, which makes it a bit unpleasant.  Contrast with UK restaurants where they go heavy on the sweet and it becomes too sickly.

 

 

锅包肉 is a different prospect.  If I remember correctly, there are two different versions, the proper stuff is called 老式锅包肉, and then there is a more common variant which I think is made with a tomato sauce.  I suspect this is probably also made with 里脊, but in my experience it comes in thin slices rather than the more thick I've had with 糖醋里脊, making it more palatable.

 

 

 

[889]

Nothing wrong with using chicken. You'll sometimes find 糖醋雞柳 at 清真 restaurants.

 

Myself, I like that dark brown vinegary version of the sauce, It seems most prevalent around Jiangsu-Zhejiang.