Disappointment after first trip to China

[i__forget]

So I just spent 3 days in Qingao and 6 days in Beijing. I had a very low level of Mandarin before going, enough to have the most basic converstations in Chinese. I liked Qingdao a lot as a city, Bejing not so much but it has many places to keep someone entertained. I found Chinese people very friendly in general, they dont bother you and very patient when they speak to you. I met some cool people and had some fun talking to them, with my linited vocabulary.

 

However I completly lost my motivation for Chinese learning when i realized how the Chinese society works. To the point that I would barely want to go back to China again. Here is what completely put me off:

1. Exceptionally dirty toilets in public spaces (KFC, restaurants, malls etc). This is humiliating, to have to go through this when I am not in my hotel. This is so bad that even in the lobby of my hotel I could smell their toilet. No soap provided, they dont even wash their hands after using the toilet.

2. People smoke just about everywhere. Even in toilets. Beijing seemed to have some more smoke free places than Qingdao, but as soon as you go to a not so public room (i.e fire escape of a mall, or its toilet) you will smell the smoke again.

3. They spit everywhere. In the corridors of buildings, in toilets, etc. *Inside* of buildings.

4. When you cross the road the cars just run at you, maybe to intimidate you? Very unsafe. Not even in Thailand have I experienced so aggressive drivers when crossing the road.

5. Scammers everywhere in the main tourist spots of Beijing. Imagine going to Oxford Street for shopping and being approached by some losers every time you go to ask you if you want to have a coffee with them.

5. Somehow its expected that you will soon enough get diarrhea in China, without knowing what exactly will cause it. And we have to be OK with this.

6. Things falling apart without anyone fixing them, such as missing steps from public stairs of concrete etc.

7. Haggling, man even for a teddy bear in a mall the shop girl oferred to give me a discount. Just tell me how much its final pricre is and stop wasting my time.

 

What part of this culture do you find so fascinating exactly?

[Davedd]

Is that an experience from Beijing or Qingao?

[Jim]

It's the smoking and the spitting I like the best.

[Flickserve]

You should have visited twenty years ago. It was worse. They have changed a lot twenty and thirty years ago. Before, when you use the toilet, if you closed the door of the toilet, people would wonder why the door was closed and open it whislt you did your business.

 

There are scammers everywhere, even in London.

 

 I didn't go back to London for a number of years and then I got mild diarrhoea there. My four year old daughter also suffered from it. We got back to HK and she didn't get better. A stool culture came out positive with Salmonella!

 

Personally, I like looking at the differences in culture. I may not like parts of it but I like looking at why it's different. People may not be so sophisticated, maybe they have different mannerisms, but well, yeah, it's different. Visitors react differently so yeah, a bit unfortunate for you whereas some people would experience the same things and love it. 

[somethingfunny]

27 minutes ago, i__forget said:

People smoke just about everywhere. Even in toilets.

 

That's what the toilets are for.

[ChTTay]

I can’t tell if this is serious?! 

 

A lot of the stuff you’re saying seems pretty exaggerated. At least for Beijing.

 

Sounds like it’s best if you switch languages. Maybe study German instead. 

[imron]

15 minutes ago, Jim said:

It's the smoking and the spitting I like the best.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, amirite?

 

[889]

It's such a classic litany of complaints that I too thought we had one of those scammers trying to pull the wool over our eyes. But the OP has a good record of prior posts.

 

The message to the OP has to be: we all take China on its own terms.

[ChTTay]

@889 ah! Thanks for checking.

 

I don’t really know what kind of expectations the OP had here. Has he read these forums at all? As above, these complaints are all classic. You could not go to China and know about all of them easily enough. 

 

I actually typed a big response but it’s not worth it. 

[Shelley]

Viva le differance.

 

It is the fact that it is not like where I come from that I like it.

 

There will always be bits of anywhere that I won't like.

 

You did go to 2 cities, cities are always busy, loud, full of people who want your money ( beggars on the street, scammers), irate drivers who have to be somewhere in a hurry, deliveroo cyclists (and other companies) weaving madly in and out of the traffic terrifying pedestrians.

 

Toilets that need cleaning if not actually tearing down and rebuilding, there are often used syringes on the filthy floors. The air pollution can be quite bad sometimes, you can smell the exhaust fumes and taste it.

 

People smoke everywhere they can outside because they are not allowed to smoke inside any more.

 

I travelled 100 miles or so in my own country and got " Devon tummy" and was expected to just accept it as I am the outsider.

 

I live in a big city on the south coast of the UK, you might not think to expect it would be like this.

 

I like where I am because there are good things , lots of open green spaces in the city, all the amenities I need and like but above all it is the people. People I know, people I meet and people I have to deal with on a daily basis for the most part are amenable, friendly people.

 

If I ever had the good fortune to go to China, I would be looking at the culture, old and new architecture, nature and more, but again I would like to meet the people and make some friends.

 

I hope that OP had at least one or two positive experiences and perhaps can remember more happy things upon reflection and conclude that although China wasn't for them, it was a nice place to visit but they wouldn't want to live there.

 

 

[889]

As well, if Chinese language and history and popular culture and food and politics interest you a lot, you can still indulge those interests easily enough without setting foot in the PRC.

[happy_hyaena]

1 hour ago, i__forget said:

So I just spent 3 days in Qingao and 6 days in Beijing. I had a very low level of Mandarin before going, enough to have the most basic converstations in Chinese. I liked Qingdao a lot as a city, Bejing not so much but it has many places to keep someone entertained. I found Chinese people very friendly in general, they dont bother you and very patient when they speak to you. I met some cool people and had some fun talking to them, with my linited vocabulary.

 

However I completly lost my motivation for Chinese learning when i realized how the Chinese society works. To the point that I would barely want to go back to China again. Here is what completely put me off:

1. Exceptionally dirty toilets in public spaces (KFC, restaurants, malls etc). This is humiliating, to have to go through this when I am not in my hotel. This is so bad that even in the lobby of my hotel I could smell their toilet. No soap provided, they dont even wash their hands after using the toilet.

2. People smoke just about everywhere. Even in toilets. Beijing seemed to have some more smoke free places than Qingdao, but as soon as you go to a not so public room (i.e fire escape of a mall, or its toilet) you will smell the smoke again.

3. They spit everywhere. In the corridors of buildings, in toilets, etc. *Inside* of buildings.

4. When you cross the road the cars just run at you, maybe to intimidate you? Very unsafe. Not even in Thailand have I experienced so aggressive drivers when crossing the road.

5. Scammers everywhere in the main tourist spots of Beijing. Imagine going to Oxford Street for shopping and being approached by some losers every time you go to ask you if you want to have a coffee with them.

5. Somehow its expected that you will soon enough get diarrhea in China, without knowing what exactly will cause it. And we have to be OK with this.

6. Things falling apart without anyone fixing them, such as missing steps from public stairs of concrete etc.

7. Haggling, man even for a teddy bear in a mall the shop girl oferred to give me a discount. Just tell me how much its final pricre is and stop wasting my time.

 

What part of this culture do you find so fascinating exactly?

 

1) I live in Sweden and we don't even have free public toilets. If they were free, we'd just have homeless people our junkies there. The Chinese at least have free public toilets readily available everywhere, even if they are very very dirty.

2) This used to be the case in the West as well, didn't it?

3) Yeah, but it wasn't so bad when I was in Nanjing earlier this year. People still spit inside, but they make sure to spit in a rubbish bin. I think I saw one dude spit inside on the floor, but he got stink eyed. It's related to the smog I think, which clogs up in the back of people's throats.

4) They're trying to combat this actually. They have laws that say that if car hits a pedestrian, the blame is by default always on the owner of the car. This has created a phenomena of people throwing themselves on cars in order to win lawsuits and get rich, which again is being discussed how to solve.

5) Yup, but the food is awesome. Isn't it interesting though how we in the West suffer a lot mleftore from allergies?

6) True, but Chinese infrastucture is excellent in other ways. They have an incredibly extensive network of highspeed rail, the tickets are cheap and the seats roomy and comfy.

7) I used to hate haggling and negotiation too but now I've learned some after travelling extensively, and it made me a stronger person. As people we are always negotiating, not only using money but in terms of your time and energy, even with friends and family.

 

You sound like a typical Westerner who just left the Westerner bubble for the first time and are judging China for how it is now. Let me tell you something though. I've been to many countries in the world, both rich and very poor. I've been to some countries that are poor now and have no indications of becoming any better within the coming 20 years. Hell I've been to countries that, sadly enough, made major regressions in terms of economy, political situation, human rights, etc.

 

The first time I visited China I experienced everything you listed in your post, but I was also struck by how different it was from what I'd heard growing up in the West. I was led to believe that Chinese people were brainwashed robots who only know how to make cheap knock offs. What I discovered, however, was a vibrant country on the rise, with an incredibly ambitious and hard working populace, who've been able to make do in clever ways. In terms of culture, Chinese people have an incredibly rich literature and history, that has had a very strong influence on other Asian countries like Japan, Korea and Vietnam. In terms of food, China is a culinary heaven, boasting 8 different kinds of major cuisine branches. In general it is a very, very diverse country, so learning Chinese feels like you're learning English and having access to a whole continent/world of material. Finally, and I am biased as my Chinese friends are in general well educated, but their opinion on their country, their government and politics is actually more nuanced and critical than what many would think. So experiencing all of this really inspired me to continue learning Chinese, because I knew that that year's China was very different from China 10 or 20 years previous to that, and today's China is very different from what it will be in 10 or 20 years. I remember thinking after that that not learning Chinese would be the biggest mistake I could make.

 

People will be finding faults and complaining about China every year until one year they won't. Today, Japan and South Korea are praised for their high level of technology, but there was a time when they had a pretty shitty standard. Something similar will happen with China, IMO. Also, a lot of people love anime and k-drama/k-pop respectively, and they attract people to learn the languages. My personal prediction is that Chinese period pieces, and fantasy in particular (literature and movies), will be the next huge thing and that Chinese-Forums will be flocked with young guys and girls interested in talking about the hottest Wuxia tv series and whatever book that inspired it. 

 

I'm back in Europe now, but I'm still able to enjoy the benefits that come with learning Chinese. My university has hundreds of Chinese students with 95% of whom I'm able to make instant friends with just because of my interest in their country. Also, if you regularly check out Reddit you'll regularly see gifs/videos which have sort of "leaked out" from the big bubble that is Chinese Internet. Remember these guys? My mother often shares Chinese short drama videos on Facebook with me (you know, the low quality cheesy ones with some message about bullying or generosity), asking to know the specifics of what they're saying. 

 

Anyway, to wrap this post up, if you're unable or do not care to see the bigger, long-term picture of what's happening, go ahead and quit Chinese. If you're like us, however, and are incredibly excited for all that is in store for us, then 加油！

[ChTTay]

@happy_hyaena you’ve brought a tear to my eye. Bravo 

[edelweis]

4 hours ago, i__forget said:

What part of this culture do you find so fascinating exactly?

Chinese characters, chengyus, Chinese music, calligraphy, HuangMei Opera, Chinese characters, Chinese animation movies, seal carving, kites, shuttlecock kicking, Chinese characters, Deng Lijun, Chinese scripts. Also architecture, landscapes etc.

 

What did you expect to find when you went to China?

What made you decide to study Chinese in the first place?

 

Maybe switch to Japanese if travel and toilet cleanliness are important to you. Or try Taiwan or Singapore.

 

[Zbigniew]

4 hours ago, i__forget said:

What part of this culture do you find so fascinating exactly?

Those details you mention are just trivial departures from the social norms you're used to. The public hygiene issues seem to be generally improving.

Try and judge a country by bigger things, such as its people and their achievements, and the improvements that have been made in certain important aspects of people's living standards.

3 hours ago, happy_hyaena said:

Hell I've been to countries that, sadly enough, made major regressions in terms of... political situation, human rights,...

Sadly, so have I: Xi's China, most notably.

[anonymoose]

It sounds like culture shock to me.

 

I think the things you mention are things that any Westerner will notice going to China for the first time.

But they are minor annoyances. China, on the contrary, has many positive points - it is relatively safe for one thing. Try walking through a city centre in the UK on Friday or Saturday night, and there will be puke all over the pavements and drunk yobboes disturbing the peace. I guess many Chinese people experiencing this for the first time would feel the same way as you did in China.

 

I enjoy China because of its differences from the environment in which I grew up. I'm sure, though, if I had time, there would be many other countries in which I'd be interested in learning the language of or getting to know more.

 

If China, or learning Chinese, is not for you, then there's no point in forcing yourself to like or persevere with it. Life is short - use your time for something you enjoy.

[eion_padraig]

Maybe your next trip could be to Taiwan. 

 

[i__forget]

14 hours ago, edelweis said:

What did you expect to find when you went to China?

What made you decide to study Chinese in the first place?

I decided to learn Chinese because of my interest in the region of Asia. I have visited Tokyo, Seul, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Singapore, Kuala lumpur and somehow met Chinese people in most of these places so decided that It would be a great idea to be able to speak it. I like how the language sounds, I am interested in Chinese politics and history. The impression I have is that as a language it can be quite ubiquitous in some parts of Asia.

And so I started! What level i will achieve eventually is still something I dont know.

 

I find interesting how one can find all sorts of "why you should learn Chinese" articles but then when you criticise China people (and especially some Chinese) get upset.

[陳德聰]

I don’t think it’s so much the criticism that gets people up in arms as it is the blatant entitlement that someone needs to have in order to expect all places conform to their preconceived notions.

 

You were in China for 6 days. Many people here have lived in various parts of China and your complaints are simply just not what living in China is like at all. It sounds like you got the poor tourist’s run-around, and unfortunately that’s what happens when you don’t have insider info.

 

It’s like coming to Vancouver and staying in a rundown hotel on the east side for a few days and then claiming Canada is a waste of time to visit. You saw very little in your 6 days. You just picked 6 disgusting toilets.

 

I’ll give you the smoke though. The smoke never really stops being unpleasant if you are used to cleaner air. The spitting, meh. Just don’t step in it. Perhaps when your Chinese gets better you can let people know that it’s not very nice to spit on floors that everyone has to walk on.

[i__forget]

42 minutes ago, 陳德聰 said:

You were in China for 6 days. Many people here have lived in various parts of China and your complaints are simply just not what living in China is like at all. It sounds like you got the poor tourist’s run-around, and unfortunately that’s what happens when you don’t have insider info

No, I was in China for 9 days and I barely did any touristy things. I havent even been to the forbidden city. Apart fron the Great Wall, all the rest I am pretty sure were not far from what someone who, say, teaches English gets. Used Didi to move around, Baidu maps, buses to go to different places; this is totally the expat experience, to me. And yes I am pretty sure if I come to live to Beijing, every single time I go down to Wang Fu Jing road the scammers will be there for me (granted, this is not a complaint against China, with such a massive population I expect many people to  make a living out of harassing others, it could actually be a lot worse). And yes next time I am there people will still be rashing into the metro before you go out, these things are the same for expats and tourists. 

 

And there is nothing wrong with *my* entitlement to *my* expectations. If all of these dont bother you, hey, great for you.