Disappointment after first trip to China

[somethingfunny]

2 hours ago, i__forget said:

but then when you criticise China people (and especially some Chinese) get upset.

 

This is "Chinese Forums".  You come here and criticise China, people are obviously going to get upset.

[happy_hyaena]

2 hours ago, i__forget said:

I find interesting how one can find all sorts of "why you should learn Chinese" articles but then when you criticise China people (and especially some Chinese) get upset.

 

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion! But, to be honest, your critique wasn't particularly nuanced. All the things you brought up are really the standard shitty things about China that we all know (and dislike), but the positives you mentioned were "Beijing has many places to keep someone entertained" and "Chinese people were friendly and patient". When my family came to visit China I showed them around, this is what they were amazed by:

 

- The great selection and diversity of Chinese food. In the bigger cities you can experience cuisine from all over China. Beijing roasted duck, delicious Xinjiang bbq, spicy Sichuanese food, dumplings from the north east, Lanzhou noodles, etc.

- Home delivery of food. A couple of times when we were too tired to go out, I just ordered food for us cheaply (Korean for the adults, McDonald's for the kids). The deliverymen are very hardworking and they came knocking on our hotel doors. Super convenient.

- The 300 km/h high speed train from Beijing to Shanghai. It's a nice, comfortable trip that gives you the chance to see the (Hebei, Shandong, Anhui, Jiangsu) countryside.

- The metro systems are great. Sure, it got very crowded sometimes, and they aren't made for people with disabilities, but they are very extensive, convenient and cheap. They particularly liked the ticketing system, that just swallows your ticket when you leave.

- The beautiful nature that can be enjoyed if you leave the cities - in our specific case, the view from the Great Wall.

- The absolute sheer size of everything. Not just the Great Wall, or the Forbidden city, but also the huge train stations that are bigger than many airports, or the many parks. 

- The rental bikes. I know people complain about the rental bikes being a bubble and the mess they make, but they were very impressed.

- E-commerce. A dude we met at our hotel wanted to buy an electric scooter before he left China. He talked to one of the hotel staff, they helped him find an electric scooter on JingDong. He ordered it around 9 pm of day #1. On day #2, a delivery guy had him woken up at 8 am because he was there with his package. By 8.20 am he was zipping around outside.

- The life of the elderly. Everywhere we went we saw some very active retired elderly, often times looking after their grandchildren, or just playing around with other old people. Compare this to the elderly here in the West who spend their lives locked up in retirement homes.

- The safety, like someone else mentioned. There were CCTV and police or guards in a lot of places so we never felt unsafe walking around during the night. Granted, one could argue about the merits and dangers of living in a police state, but it was a very novel experience. Meanwhile in our home country, we're dealing with rising criminality and gang activity. In the area I grew up in a man and his pregnant wife were even shot at in broad daylight.

- Being able to pay for stuff, even when dealing with poor street vendors, using alipay or wechat pay. They've completely jumped the credit/debit card and gone directly to mobile payments.

 

Because I speak Chinese pretty well and have a Chinese bank account, I was able to show my family this side of China. They also complained about the same things you did, but they left China with an overall much more positive experience. Edit: As a learner of Chinese, it's the feeling that over time the bad things will probably become less bad (e.g. smog, hygiene, education, manners), and the good and cool things will probably become better (the convenience, the technology, media, economy) that makes it so exciting to be learning Chinese.

[i__forget]

10 minutes ago, happy_hyaena said:

Being able to pay for stuff, even when dealing with poor street vendors, using alipay or wechat pay. They've completely jumped the credit/debit card and gone directly to mobile payments

This is true, I had to pay in cash as WeChat doesnt accept foreign cards. 

 

11 minutes ago, happy_hyaena said:

They also complained about the same things you did, but they left China with an overall much more positive experience.

Overally I had a great time, I would have liked some more willingness from Chinese people to admit to the problems of their society and try to improve whatever can be improved. 

[happy_hyaena]

4 minutes ago, i__forget said:

Overally I had a great time, I would have liked some more willingness from Chinese people to admit to the problems of their society and try to improve whatever can be improved. 

What makes you think that they aren't? This was your first time in the country, right?

[Shelley]

8 minutes ago, i__forget said:

I would have liked some more willingness from Chinese people to admit to the problems of their society and try to improve whatever can be improved. 

I think this can be said of nearly all the countries of the world.

Just because there are problems in a society doesn't mean the people go around completely involved in this, they have lives to lead, ambitions to follow and they just get on with it all the best they can.

Some chose to try to change things, they become politicians, rebels or people who try to change things other ways, but these are not the general population.

[Tomsima]

Yes, as a general rule the younger generations also do not like the spitting

 

Yes, smoking is everywhere, many people don't like this situation either, but it is often seen as a social obligation (like having a beer after work is where I'm from).

 

Yes the public toilets don't have toilet paper, and are grimy. But there's no junkies in there shooting up like where I'm from.

 

Yes the buildings are boring and every city is the same (I feel like not going to the forbidden city while in Beijing was a bit of a loss for you).

 

BUT the culture is amazing. The tea is fantastic. The food is enough to make me not want to go back to my own country. There are people who will change your perspective on life. There is TV that will make you laugh and cry. The language is so deep, so varied, so damn 博大精深 and 豐富 that you just can't not find something you love in there to keep you interested and motivated.

 

Please can I also take a moment to mention that in China bottles of mineral water are FILLED TO THE BRIM with water, no air bubble at the top, so that when you open the bottle it spills on you before you can take a mouthful.

 

An analogy of China.

 

[happy_hyaena]

11 minutes ago, Tomsima said:

 

Please can I also take a moment to mention that in China bottles of mineral water are FILLED TO THE BRIM with water, no air bubble at the top, so that when you open the bottle it spills on you before you can take a mouthful.

And there are few things more satisfying than the feeling and sound of your big ass straw bursting through the plastic film of your 珍珠奶茶! 大杯，热的，半糖。。。

Take me back 

[Lu]

46 minutes ago, i__forget said:

I would have liked some more willingness from Chinese people to admit to the problems of their society and try to improve whatever can be improved. 

But China is in fact actively working to improve many of these things.

 

1. Exceptionally dirty toilets: There've been campaigns for years to build nicer toilets. More and more toilets look better and better.

2. People smoke just about everywhere: Smoking is illegal in more and more places, and I do think it is decreasing.

3. They spit everywhere: There have been campaigns against this for years. Decades, even.

4. When you cross the road the cars just run at you: Agreed, this is an issue. However, I suspect traffic safety will become a hot topic in China somewhere in the near future, if it isn't yet.

5. Scammers everywhere in the main tourist spots of Beijing: This is already illegal, of course.

5. Diarrhea: Food safety in general is perceived as a huge problem by the Chinese themselves. Not sure how much progress is being made in resolving this, but the Chinese are well aware of the problem.

6. Things falling apart without anyone fixing them: Agreed, I suspect the Chinese generally see this as less of a problem than a visiting westerner.

7. Haggling: This is not a problem but just a cultural difference.

[889]

"I would have liked some more willingness from Chinese people to admit to the problems of their society and try to improve whatever can be improved."

 

Well, here's a joint directive from the Party Central Committee and the State Council. You can't get much higher than that in China. It's entitled 《关于领导干部带头在公共场所禁烟有关事项的通知》:

 

http://www.gov.cn/gongbao/content/2014/content_2561281.htm

 

Note the fine example of bureaucratic understatement: "在公共场所吸烟的现象仍较普遍，特别是少数领导干部在公共场所吸烟，不仅危害公共环境和公众健康，而且损害党政机关和领导干部形象，造成不良影响."

[i__forget]

56 minutes ago, Tomsima said:

The tea is fantastic. The food is enough to make me not want to go back to my own country.

The jasmine tea from KFC was insanely good. I still regret my last oportunaty to buy before leaving thinking I would find in the airport. 

The portions of their food have also been very generous, can't complaint about that! Their kebabs were also good, didnt expect to find (chinese) kebabs in China.

[happy_hyaena]

Sounds like we've managed to change your mind about China! 

[roddy]

If you move to Beijing you will never go anywhere near Wangfujing.

 

There are irritants, but plenty of people seem to find a way of coping. 

[abcdefg]

All the good things I was thinking of mentioning have been so well covered already in the above posts that there's no need to list them again. The only thing useful that I might be able to contribute to the discussion is that lots of places, cities and provinces, have their own character. Finding a place to live in China is a balancing act in which you try to get as many of the positives as possible with as few of the negatives as you can. The same is true with spending a week or two in a visit. 

 

The items on your list of peeves are all things I dislike too. Next time you visit, if you do, perhaps try a different part of China. Give Beijing a rest; it's not for every one. I think your observation is correct that China has an influence throughout Asia and is a good starting point to gaining a toehold for regional understanding. 

 

At least you have come and had a look for yourself. And you have made a sober assessment of how you reacted. I congratulate you for doing that; it's a good starting point. It's OK if China is not "love at first sight." It might grow on you like it has for some of us; but then again it might not and there's no harm in that.   

 

 

[imron]

1 hour ago, roddy said:

you will never go anywhere near Wangfujing

Not true!  When I was living in Beijing I'd probably go to the two big bookstores there at least once a year.

 

1 hour ago, i__forget said:

The jasmine tea from KFC was insanely good

Just wait until you try good Jasmine tea then ;-)

 

3 hours ago, i__forget said:

I would have liked some more willingness from Chinese people to admit to the problems of their society and try to improve whatever can be improved. 

They do, just not to foreign strangers they've known for less than 2 weeks 家丑不可外扬 and all.

[LiMo]

I'd recommend holding off on a blanket ban of China. You only went to Beijing and Qingdao correct? I'm in Hangzhou and a solid two thirds of the stuff you mentioned just aren't relevant here. Traffic is fine and I can actually cycle here unlike in London where I would be killed in moments (we almost lost our secondary school head teacher that way!). Spitting happens but it's not so bad really. Public toilets, the few I've visited, have been no better or worse than the UK but they are much more numerous and completely free, which I think is probably worth a Nobel Peace Prize, it's certainly done more for humanity than some of the other winners ;)

 

I think that you may well have a different opinion if you were to spend a few weeks or months here. I don't think 9 days is really enough time to see if you can get used to those things or not. But I suppose that really depends on your situation. If you only ever have a chance to come here on short trips then it may not be easy to get into the swing of things and so the surface level crap (in this case literally) may be too hard to get over.

[snowflake]

Visit Taiwan next time, seriously....though should probably mention that since the climate is hot and humid there, the bugs can be disturbing. 

[stapler]

14 hours ago, 陳德聰 said:

You were in China for 6 days. Many people here have lived in various parts of China and your complaints are simply just not what living in China is like at all

 

To be fair Beijing and Qingdao are some

of the cleanest and most comfortable parts of China. If the OP went to other places in China I would imagine he/she would have found it much more traumatic. 

 

Furthermore, I think the OP only scratched the surface about the problems with China. The OP didn’t even note getting to experience the other dirty stuff - peeing and pooping in the streets, no one covering their mouths when coughing etc. But perhaps more importantly, he didn’t encounter the more serious problems of racism, xenophobia, corruption, guanxi, unwillingness to help strangers in distress, ignorance, selfishness, etc.

 

The first time I went to China was on the way to North Korea. The few days I spent in Beijing horrified me and I couldn’t wait to leave. Getting to Pyongyang was a big relief because it was much more comfortable than Beijing (as a tourist at least). China only grew on me more slowly after I learnt embrace the chaos and dirtiness. But perhaps more than anything else my interest came from having good Chinese friends. I can totally see how China is unbearable for most Westerners if you don’t have any Chinese friends. 

 

Unlike others on the forum I don’t care much for Chinese culture - especially the typical stuff (tea, food, art, etc). And I find contemporary Chinese culture (TV, music, etc) very shallow. The poor state of mainland Chinese civil society doesn’t help make the culture more endearing either. For me connecting to the culture is basically all about connecting with the people. I have an interest in Chinese insofar as I have an interest in my friends and their own lives.  Without the personal relationships I imagine I too would, like the OP, see nothing of value in the culture or language. 

 

[happy_hyaena]

57 minutes ago, stapler said:

 

Unlike others on the forum I don’t care much for Chinese culture - especially the typical stuff (tea, food, art, etc). And I find contemporary Chinese culture (TV, music, etc) very shallow. The poor state of mainland Chinese civil society doesn’t help make the culture more endearing either. For me connecting to the culture is basically all about connecting with the people. I have an interest in Chinese insofar as I have an interest in my friends and their own lives.  Without the personal relationships I imagine I too would, like the OP, see nothing of value in the culture or language. 

 

There's a "Chicken and the Egg" issue here though: what came first, the language skills or the friends?

[roddy]

19 hours ago, imron said:

Not true!  When I was living in Beijing I'd probably go to the two big bookstores there at least once a year

Kids got online shopping now, Granddad...

[i__forget]

9 hours ago, stapler said:

The OP didn’t even note getting to experience the other dirty stuff - peeing and pooping in the streets, no one covering their mouths when coughing etc. But perhaps more importantly, he didn’t encounter the more serious problems of racism, xenophobia, corruption, guanxi, unwillingness to help strangers in distress, ignorance, selfishness, etc.

Coughing without covering their mouths is something I didn't notice, probably because noone coughed onto my face. I did hear them make all sorts of noises in a restaurant though. Racism and xenophobia is something all white people face in Asia, I believe. I was rejected from a club in the past just because I am white, in Korea. Corruption exists in all countries worldwide (look at ex president of Korea). Unwillingness to help strangers in distress, while I have seen a video about it, I don't know to which degree holds true when there are Chinese English speakers around. Ignorance, selfishness etc again I think are characteristics of the human nature.