How to distinguish between spoken and written mandarin?

[小陆]

My current mandarin level is best described as awkward - somewhere between HSK3 and 4 with a smattering of other vocabulary needed for life. 

 

A common critique I receive from native speakers is that in my oral conversations I am using phrases and vocabulary that should only be used in written mandarin.

 

(Sincere) Thanks to imron's advice, I have begun reading a lot to improve my mandarin (Chairman Bao etc).  However, I"m not sure whether this will just accentuate my problem.

 

Any advice or resources to help me with this would be very welcome.  Alternatively, perhaps the native speakers are 'wrong'?

[Luxi]

11 hours ago, 小陆 said:

Alternatively, perhaps the native speakers are 'wrong'?

 

They're probably right. I remember 2 of my teachers doubled with laughter at my old-fashioned Chinese expressions.   

 

If you only read, your spoken language is going to sound quite strange to native ears. You have to balance your practice and include quality time watching / listening Chinese spoken in real life situations. There are lots of TV programs available on YouTube and the various Chinese TV (CCTV websites), many of those use normal speaking vocabulary and slang. Most now include Chinese subtitles and some are also subtitled in English.

 

Edited to add: this page may have good material for HSK3-HSK4 level

http://english.cntv.cn/learnchinese/

 

 

[DavyJonesLocker]

I think we all go through the same issues and many of the so called oral text books don't help matters. I remember saying 去散步 a lot (to the amusement of native Chinese) as it was coming up frequently in text books. I don't think I've days that in years.

 

Best way in my view is just use wechat, talk to people and you will naturally absorb it. You will also find it much easier to remember. There doesn't have to be any set learning plan and even if you try make one I'd say it will only be of limited effectiveness. You will find that age of companion, sex, type of relationship will all illicit different types of oral speech. 

[Zbigniew]

1 hour ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I remember saying 去散步 a lot (to the amusement of native Chinese)

I don't know what context you were saying it in or how you were incorporating it into your speech, but I can't see anything objectionable about it as a collocation, nor can the three native Chinese speakers I've asked. Maybe different regional standards are the explanation here, or maybe the cause of the amusement was some other aspect of your use of the phrase, such as your obvious fondness for it.

 

 

[DavyJonesLocker]

21 minutes ago, Zbigniew said:

I don't know what context you were saying it in or how you were incorporating it into your speech, but I can't see anything objectionable about it as a collocation, nor can the three native Chinese speakers I've asked. Maybe different regional standards are the explanation here, or maybe the cause of the amusement was some other aspect of your use of the phrase, such as your obvious fondness for it.

 

 

Not objectionable at all, it was more that I was using it all the time in every occasion at the start of my learning. It's perfectly fine but just a bit too polite for some circumstances such as after a meal with a friend, one might be better saying  溜达溜达， 走一走， 去玩儿。This type of language starts to make you sound more native like.

 

Put it this way, you wouldn't hear on the news that  习近平 and invited his guests to 溜达溜达 around the summer place after a banquet 

 

Using others words like 在干啥呢，.... 发呆,  can be replaced with less colloquial chinese but using them starts to make you more native like. These type of words don't come up in HSK  (I think) list or taught in language schools .

[陳德聰]

I go 散散步 all the time ;)

 

But in relation to the topic, this is something I still sometimes struggle with. When it comes to vocabulary I encounter while reading, I often start by just assuming there is a one-syllable less formal way of representing most two-syllable verbs, and ask someone “what’s a less fancy way to say X.”

 

I have never found passively absorbing from TV to be particularly helpful, except to pick up colloquialisms I may not have otherwise. I find it takes active asking, as native speakers often basically have no desire to point out all the weird ideosyncracies they notice in your speech unless you’re paying them.

[DavyJonesLocker]

41 minutes ago, 陳德聰 said:

I find it takes active asking, as native speakers often basically have no desire to point out all the weird ideosyncracies they notice in your speech unless you’re paying them.

 

I agree with this. That's why I find wechat chats useful. You can add it to a pleco flashcard deck as come across it. In real speech it's hard to make a mental note of a very useful word.

 

 

[Flickserve]

13 hours ago, Luxi said:

Edited to add: this page may have good material for HSK3-HSK4 level

http://english.cntv.cn/learnchinese/

 

 

This series is good. The dialogue in each episode is not too long. The pdf transcript can also be pulled out for easy reference. 

 

I haven't learnt written Chinese so I keep getting corrected when I write. 

[dtcamero]

14 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

Best way in my view is just use wechat, talk to people and you will naturally absorb it.

 

for me it took two weeks or so of making friends and speaking with people to straighten this out.

 

it's not a big deal, most self-studyers have strong reading skills relatively. having read a lot you will talk like what you've read, which is mostly 书面语.

get your general language comprehension skills up and when you start making friends they will laugh if you say something really weird... you will be struck by moment and remember it in the future when you go to use the same phrase.

 

反正 whatever mistake you make it will be understood by the listener so no point sweating over it.... there are probably other things more worth worrying about.

[小陆]

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts.  Really helpful. 

[Guest realmayo]

I'd consider looking at listening comprehension textbooks. I've usually found them surprisingly well done. The focus is usually on normal, everyday spoken Chinese. Try to find one from the mainstream courses, at the right level for you and don't just buy the 'student' book but also the 'teacher' one too because it should have transcripts of every dialogue. Do a lesson, check your answers, and then go through the transcript: if you can find words or phrases which seem to mean the same as others that you've already learned, ask a native speaker what the difference is, if one is more spoken or idiomatic.

 

Ideally you'd watch a lot of Chinese chatshows with transcripts and pore over those transcripts but I think that approach is too time-consuming to be useful if you're HSK 3/4.

 

Also: this is just my impression but: when Chinese people call a word 书面语 I think they simply mean that it's too formal for a given context. So, you could be told off for using a 书面语 word in a written note to a friend.

[zander1]

34 minutes ago, realmayo said:

Also: this is just my impression but: when Chinese people call a word 书面语 I think they simply mean that it's too formal for a given context. So, you could be told off for using a 书面语 word in a written note to a frien

 

Agreed - and I’d say English has the same distinction. Whether a word is ‘appropriate’  is less a binary written/spoken divide and more derived from context. 

[Hua]

It would be most helpful if you give an example of something you have said to native speakers, so I can see what the problem is.