Correct measure word for 电脑

[Christa]

Hi everybody,

 

Well, we just had fun with 手机, now I was wondering about 电脑.

 

So, the same sort of questions again: what seems more right / normal to you: 一台电脑 or 一部电脑 or 一个电脑?

 

The mobile phone discussion was enlightening. But what do you make of these?

[abcdefg]

一台电脑 gets my vote.

[陳德聰]

Haha literally all of the above. 一台電腦 is especially correct for a desktop computer.

[Shelley]

I found this and thought it might be helpful. http://wrmbilingual201213.weebly.com/uploads/1/6/9/2/16929452/list_of_measure_words.pdf

 

Also this https://www.cheng-tsui.com/browse/reference-language-learning/cheng-tsui-chinese-measure-word-dictionary?id=21393

This dictionary i found very useful. I have the actual book, didn't know it was available as an ebook.

[yueni]

There's not necessarily always "one perfect measure word" for any item. If you're talking about a desktop computer, 一台电脑 for sure, but as @陳德聰 said above, all of the above sounds right to me.

[abcdefg]

1 hour ago, yueni said:

There's not necessarily always "one perfect measure word" for any item.

 

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. A thousand times yes. 

[艾墨本]

6 hours ago, yueni said:

There's not necessarily always "one perfect measure word" for any item

It's not so much a lack of the perfect measure word and more so that the measure word is helping to describe the object or concept. Measure words carry meaning, and the more precise your measure word, the easier it is to understand what object or concept you are talking about. When I say precise, I mean the difference between "个" and "台." You could also say 一堆电脑, but now you've got a whole mound of them.

 

 

台: "used for certain machinery, apparatus, etc."

部: "used for machines, vehicles, etc."

 

Do you want to emphasize that it is a tool or that it was engineered into existence? Or you could just emphasize that you've got "one" and go with 个.

[Christa]

These are all such wonderfully helpful answers. They give me a better understanding why I have heard such a variety used before. I had thought it was to do with regionalism (which can also be a factor) but I can now see that there is more at work than just that.

 

So, just to check, does this mean that saying "一个电脑" is not wrong?

[Shelley]

I was taught if in doubt use 个。

 

If you consult the references I posted earlier you can make a study of measure words and learn the "correct" one for everything, till then rely on 个

[abcdefg]

5 hours ago, 艾墨本 said:

It's not so much a lack of the perfect measure word and more so that the measure word is helping to describe the object or concept. Measure words carry meaning, and the more precise your measure word, the easier it is to understand what object or concept you are talking about.

 

Well said! Measure words are specific and situational. They can help you produce intelligently nuanced speech that embraces shades of meaning instead of just robotic, mechanical, "talking dictionary" speech. When employed with thought and care, they can help make your Chinese rich and specific instead of generic.

 

@imron said something similar in the other recent "measure word" thread. (Oops, I realize now I got my wires crossed, but will leave it anyhow.)

 

Quote

Another way to think of measure words, is to view them as 'describing words'.  They describe certain attributes of the object they are used with, and if the description fits then you can likely (though not always) pair the measure word with that object, with 个 being a generic, non-descriptive, catch all if all else fails.  个 can be used for anything in a pinch, but it might not be the most apt if there are other more appropriate descriptive measure words to use.

 

Even though Zhang Dong 张东 (who had to drop out of school after grade 6 to work on the family farm) gets by just fine out on the street buying a newspaper, taking a taxi, and later ordering noodles with only 个 "ge" most of the time, a scholar or a poet will use a wide assortment of measure words, carefully mated to what he or she is describing. The person writing President Xi's speeches will take care with the choice of measure words. 

[imron]

4 hours ago, Christa said:

They give me a better understanding why I have heard such a variety used before.

Another way to think of measure words, is to view them as 'describing words'.  They describe certain attributes of the object they are used with, and if the description fits then you can likely (though not always) pair the measure word with that object, with 个 being a generic, non-descriptive, catch all if all else fails.  个 can be used for anything in a pinch, but it might not be the most apt if there are other more appropriate descriptive measure words to use.

 

Other times, although the description might fit, there are preferred words to use for certain nouns and these preferred terms can change by region.  It's kind of like how it sounds more natural to say 'knife and fork' rather than 'fork and knife'.  If someone told you "The forks and knives are in the top drawer" it's not wrong per se, but it doesn't sound as nice as "The knives and forks are in the top drawer".  Same goes with some pairings of measure words.

[Christa]

Thanks for all this. It's great!

By the way, I don't want to start a new thread for this final one, as I feel I'm hogging the forum. But can anyone tell me, what would be your measure word of preference for 相机?

[Shelley]

What do you think 相机 means?

[Christa]

4 minutes ago, Shelley said:

What do you think 相机 means?

 

Well, camera, 照相机.

 

Have I said something odd...?

[Shelley]

Without the 照 it doesn't mean camera. It means opportune moment, as the circumstances allow.

 

 

[Christa]

1 minute ago, Shelley said:

Without the 照 it doesn't mean camera. It means opportune moment, as the circumstances allow.

 

Really? That's not been my experience.

 

Still, no matter. What would be your measure word of preference for 照相机?

[imron]

7 minutes ago, Shelley said:

Without the 照 it doesn't mean camera.

相机 is fine for camera.  Measure words are more or less the same you'd use for mobile phone.

[Christa]

4 minutes ago, imron said:

相机 is fine for camera.  Measure words are more or less the same you'd use for mobile phone.

 

Thanks, imron. So, would both 一部手机 and 一部相机 sound good to you?

[imron]

Yes.  台 also works.

 

Here's a handy tip to find suitable measure words.  Do a Google search of the object, in quotes, with a * where you'd put the measure word.

 

Optionally put site:.cn or site:.tw to return results from either mainland China or Taiwan.  e.g.

 

"一*相機" site:.tw

"一*相机" site:.cn

 

(make sure to include the quotes in your search term).

 

That should give you a good idea of what is commonly used - though be careful to read the full sentence contained with each result to make sure it's actually a measure word being used  E.g. searching for "一*相机" site:.cn returns a whole bunch of 一台相机s and 一部相机 as you'd expect, and then there's also a 一来相机 which seems a little odd because 来 isn't used as a measure word, and sure enough if you read the full sentence you see it's actually "一来相机介面操作不够顺畅，二来是当按完快门键之后会出现有一点卡的情况".  In other words, it's the 一来……二来…… construct and has nothing to do with measure words.

 

Edit: there's also a bias towards written language in this kind of search, which may be different from what people use when speaking, but generally it serves as a good starting point.

 

 

[Shelley]

Okay Pleco lists it as colloquial variant for camera. Not seen it before used like this, everyday is a school day