Audio file: please criticise my pronunciation

[roddy]

I would like to hear Roddy's pronunciation. I notice on the messages where he writes in Chinese, he gets things so much more idiomatic than I ever would, and I bet he speaks well and I'd like to hear it...

I wish that was true. I'm a classic 'didn't bother with the tones' learner and suffering for it now. . .

[Dennis]

Because most Chinese get them also wrong.

Xian1sheng, ni3 tai1tai hao3 ma?

Xian1sheng, ni3 tai3tai4 hao ma?

Xian1sheng, ni3 tai4tai hao3 ma?

Every chinese will know that it is 先生，你太太好嗎？by context.

But if he doesn't understand you even when you said Xian1sheng, ni3 tai4tai hao3 ma? correctly then you will have a problem.

So Fenlan don't spend too much time on tones but instead spend it on learning more 詞 and 字.

If a chinese doesn' t understand you use another word furen, qizi ,airen or write it down in characters 先生，你太太好嗎？

[fenlan]

Dennis I don't think the observation that "most Chinese people get the tones wrong" and "don't worry about the tones" is helpful at all to learners of Chinese! If you are right that Chinese people make mistakes in their tones, then I would like to at least get as many tones right as does the average Chinese...

[Quest]

Because most Chinese get them[tones] also wrong.

I disagree. Few Mandarin speaking Chinese would speak incorrect tones, despite regional variations in pronunciation.

[Dennis]

In what tones do you pronounce the sentence I also want to buy a note-book Wo ye xiang mai bijiben 我也想买笔记本。

[Dennis]

Fenlan, you will NEVER sound like the average chinese even if you do get your tones right.

Words like 你好、再见、认识你，我很高兴、太太、夫人、先生、小姐 and 谢谢 are designed by the chinese in dealing with foreigners.

So you can throw 实用汉语课本1，2，3 and 4 away and only post texts from 5 and 6.

[fenlan]

Dennis, you are right I will never sound like a Chinese person (Dashan does, but he is a member of a small minority of foreigners who cracked it). You said:

Words like 你好、再见、认识你，我很高兴、太太、夫人、先生、小姐 and 谢谢 are designed by the chinese in dealing with foreigners.

I am not sure what you meant by the sentence. Do you mean Chinese people don't use those phrases. I heard ni3hao3 and xie4xie a zillion times.

wo ye xiang mai bijiben: officially this is wo3 ye2 xiang3 mai2 bi3ji4ben3, but some of those could become tone 2 if delivered fast. Unofficially it assumes much more of a wave. Can native speakers comment?

[Dennis]

When chinese meet on street they say HELLO 你到哪儿去啊？

When chinese pays a visited they reply HELLO 我吃饱了。to the host when he says HELLO 你吃了吗？

[Dennis]

I will wait for the answer from Quest first before I give the correct tones.

Your tones are not correct Fenlan.

[chenpv]

Fenlan, you will NEVER sound like the average chinese even if you do get your tones right.

Dennis, cant you behave yourself a little. Fenlan is asking for help on his oral chinese but not criticism on who he can be. maybe its time u mind your own english/chinese.

I will wait for the answer from Quest first before I give the correct tones.

Dennis, nobody is begging you to be the teacher. i dont know whether you are a chinese or not, but show a little modesty.

Fenlan, you are doing great in your pronunciations except for some minor flaws, i believe you can ace it.

PS: to end this senseless quiz, i will say its:

wo3(2) ye3 xiang3(2)mai3 bi3ji4ben3.

[Dennis]

(sh) No, I'm not Chinese.

No, I don't want to be the teacher of this forum.

No, my Chinese is not good.

No, my English is not good.

No, even my native language Dutch is not good.

And no, I'm not going to be polite to Fenlan.

Fenlan's knowledge of the Chinese Language is exactly quite GOOD and Fenlan is improving fast but I'm not going to tell that to Fenlan.

I am going to be mean and nasty to Fenlan in order to build his/her confidence in himself/herself.

That is why I posted the classical example 我也想买笔记本 to show that not only Fenlan's and my tones are wrong { I always say Wo2 ye2 xiang2 mai3 bi3ji4ben3 } but also the tones of a native chinese like you can be wrong.

When you write 我也想买笔记本 down in Pinyin it should be Wo3 ye3 xiang3 mai3 bi3ji4ben3 but when you say it it should be Wo2 ye1 xiang3 mai2 bi3ji4ben3.

[fenlan]

Dennis, your suggested tones for this sentence seem to correlate with what I previously posted about 3 3rd tone's together becomign 2-1-3, but that was rejected by Chinese members of the forum. I could accept your version more easily if you altered the one of the wo to 2. Anyhow, the fact that I personally do not know the correct version does not mean that the tones shoudl be ignored, which is what you are trying to prove.

[chenpv]

No, I'm not Chinese.

No, I don't want to be the teacher of this forum.

No, my Chinese is not good.

No, my English is not good.

No, even my native language Dutch is not good.

OK OK OK OK OK, i see. i just think u were going a little far.

When you write 我也想买笔记本 down in Pinyin it should be Wo3 ye3 xiang3 mai3 bi3ji4ben3 but when you say it it should be Wo3 ye1 xiang3 mai2 bi3ji4ben3.

maybe you were refering to a person who is greatly influenced by his dialect accent. but to tell u the truth, i cannot find a dialect i know to fit in that pronunciation.

[zh-laoshi]

Pinyin writes it like this: 我(wǒ)也(yě)想(xiǎng)买(mǎi)笔(bǐ)记(jì)本(běn)

I heard it spoken with these tones:

2-2-1-3-4-1-3

[Dennis]

I mistyped.

It should indeed be Wo2 ye1 xiang3 mai2 bi3ji4ben3.

I shall correct it.

Tones should indeed not be ignored but also not over-stressed as even Chenpv could not pronounced it right.

You should spend some time learning tones but also on grammar and characters

When the uncertainty of tones keeps you from speaking chinese and your study of characters and grammar then that is not good

[fenlan]

I am sure ChenPV has no problem pronouncing Chinese! I think there is a genuine question on the *theory* of how to combine the tones, and how to teach it to foreigners. Your 2-1-3 theory agrees with what professor Wu Haomin of Hangzhou University wrote in a book I have. But I think there is roomfor debate. Furthemore, pronouncing it 2-3-2-3-2-3 is not actually wrong.

[shibo77]

wo3 ye3 xiang3 mai3 bi3 ji4 ben3 << Correct character-per-character pronunciation

STRESSING the pronoun "I":

我也想买笔记本.

Wo2 ye3 xiang3 mai3 bi3 ji4 ber3. << Usual pronunciation in Beijing.

I want to buy a notebook also.

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STRESSING the "also", pause in between "I" and "also", "I" short, "also" lengthened.

我也想买笔记本.

Wo3 ye2 xiang3 mai3 bi3 ji4 ber3. << Usual pronunciation in Beijing.

I also want to buy a notebook.

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STRESSING both "I" and "also", pause between "I" and "also", "I" lengthened, "also" lengthened.

我也想买笔记本.

Wo2 ye2 xiang3 mai3 bi3 ji4 ber3. << Usual pronunciation in Beijing.

I also want to buy a notebook.

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Wo and ye could also be shortened and almost sound like a neutral tone. But only one would change to the neutral tone and the other becomes lengthened and changes to the second tone. Basically emphasising one word unstresses the other. in the last example, when both are stressed, it makes you sound as if the speaker is on the verge of a nervous breakdown if the speaker doesn't get that notebook...

Wo2 ye3 xiang2 mai3 bi3 ji4 ber3. << This sounds awkward, and probably there are people who say it this way in a specific situation, but I would think that if "want" is pronounced as the second tone, then it should follow immediately "I".

Wo2 xiang2 mai3 bi3 ji4 ber3.

Wo2 ye2 xiang2 mai3 bi3ji4ben3 << This is incorrect, I tried to say this several times and I think it is very awkward, I have never heard this before.

Wo3 ye1 xiang3 mai2 bi3ji4ben3. << This is incorrect. I have never heard of this.

Wo2 ye1 xiang3 mai2 bi3ji4ben3. << This is also incorrect. I have never heard of this.

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The tones are very important, and educated Chinese speak with proper tones.

你到哪儿去啊？我吃饱了。你吃了吗？ << We don't say this when we meet someone...

informally with people I know, I would ask: "唉， 哥们儿， (你最近)怎(么)样儿？" "还成么？" "咋的？" "有什么消息?" “没事儿吧？”

informally with people I know, I would reply: “还成!” “还活着!” “还算挺儿!” “无为!” "命苦啊!" "谢了!" "谢啦!"

formally I would ask: "唉，您好！" “教授好!” “老师好!” “妈妈好!”

formally I would reply: "不错！" “挺好， 谢谢教授关注！” “还挺好！谢谢！” “多谢！“

neutrally to someone I don't know, (for example a taxi driver), I would ask: "你好！" “您好！” “师傅您好！“

Basically we do use 您好, 你好, 谢谢. Is "Hello" very commonly used?

Truely I think fenlan speaks very well, and if he stays in China for a few years, interacting with native Chinese speakers, of course he could speak like Dashan, and put him on a microphone and you probably would think it is an average native Chinese speaker speaking! This isn't a compliment, this is the truth.

-Shìbó

[Dennis]

I don't know the theory of Wu Haomin.

The wo ye xiang mai bijiben sentence I got from my Linguaphone Course Chinese that I learned 20 years ago in 1985.

Chenpv pronounced it wrong, but does that mean that he CANNOT speak Chinese?

HELL NO! He is a BLOODY native speaker of the language.

[geraldc]

I have a feeling this "I also want a notebook" phrase will go down in language learning infamy along with la plume de ma tante and my postillion has been struck by lightning.

I think it's important everyone finds their own voice/accent, e.g. my family are from the south, but I was born in the UK, so my mandarin will be influenced by both my cantonese and my english accent, it won't be perfect, but it is who I am. I would feel very strange if I talked like a beijinger, it's not who I am.

[Dennis]

Don't try to be like Dashan or Chenpv but be yourself Fenlan.

I do speak Chinese with a Dutch accent and that is me