Vegetarian chicken

[Fdurrant]

I have eaten a dish called Su Ji in Shanghai. It is not a dish made at home but bought ready made from the market a bit like tofu.   It Is usually eaten as fried slices and as a vegetarian it is one of my favourite dishes    Back home in the UK. I have once seen it frozen in a sipermarket but never again.  I wonder if it can be homemade?   It would be great to,have a recipe if anyone knows.  

[ouyangjun]

Pretty sure most of the time it is just wheat gluten.  It is all the other stuff like the spices, sauces and cooking method that make it taste the way it does.  Wheat gluten itself does not have a whole bunch of taste.  And yes, you can likely make it at home.  Just search for vegetarian wheat gluten recipes and something will surely pop up.

[abcdefg]

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I have eaten a dish called Su Ji in Shanghai.

 

This "su ji" is 素鸡, made from tofu. Most commonly, thick sheets of tofu are rolled tightly and sliced "across the grain" into rounds. Then these slices are dipped in an egg batter, dredged in flour or bread crumbs, salted, and pan fried 煎。In restaurants they may be deep fried 油炸。Other flavoring ingredients can be added in the form of dry spices or as a wet sauce.

 

   

 

 

It is sometimes prepared "sweet and sour" 糖醋。Or it can be made with a red sauce, "hong shao" 红烧。It has a pleasantly firm texture, resembling a pounded cutlet of chicken breast. The few times I've tried it, the dish was enjoyable though I don't think I would have mistaken it for chicken. 

 

Kunming has a couple restaurants next door to the large Buddhist temple on Yuantong Street (圆通寺。) These places specialize in elaborate mock fish, mock duck and even mock pork spare rib entrees.   

 

Here's a Chinese recipe for making it at home. I'll look for one in English for you in a few minutes. 

 

http://www.meishij.net/素鸡 

 

[imron]

14 minutes ago, abcdefg said:

I'll look for one in English for you in a few minutes. 

We all look forward to your write up ;-)

[abcdefg]

Here's a link to one method that closely resembles what I found on the Chinese internet: http://www.hungrymonster.com/recipe/recipe-search.php?C=Chinese&rid=45704 

 

I haven't tried making it myself. (Am in the US at the moment and don't have easy access to the necessary ingredients.) Will give it a whirl when I return to Kunming early next month. 

 

Did a little more background reading, and I owe @ouyangjun an apology. Seems I spoke too fast, and it can indeed be made from other things besides tofu. Here are a couple of short discussions. 

 

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/vegetarian-chicken-tofu-soybeans-meat-alternatives-asian-grocery-stores.html 

https://www.quora.com/How-is-mock-chicken-made 

[Zeppa]

It made me think of wheat gluten. I know in theory you can wash wheat dough in water, flushing away parts of it till you're left with gluten, which is vegetarian protein of one kind. I haven't tried it and don't know if it's what you mean, but I believe the Chinese sell tins of it. I actually have some gluten myself, which I bought and sometimes use to add to wholemeal flour so the dough rises more. I think bakers use gluten in some white bread too, as even hard wheat with a high gluten content can be made to rise massively if given more gluten. 

 

I now see that abcdefg's links confirm this. 

[Zeppa]

I didn't realize seitan means wheat gluten.

If you do a web search for: make wheat gluten at home, perhaps adding site:uk at the end, you will find a lot.

You can also buy the wheat gluten in the form of flour that I mentioned from amazon, and it says that it can be used to make seitan:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buy-Whole-Foods-Online-Gluten/dp/B007CX0ZSK

 

Here's a U.S. recipe to make it from the wheat gluten flour but I am sure there are others:

https://www.thespruce.com/how-to-make-seitan-3376639

 

I have no problem with US recipes except their eternal cups!

 

'Wheat gluten flour' is a bit of a misnomer - it is in the form of a flour, but it is actually protein.

[abcdefg]

4 hours ago, Zeppa said:

I didn't realize seitan means wheat gluten.

 

I didn't realize that either, @Zeppa. Looks like that method should work. What I would really like to do is spend a few hours being an invisible fly on the wall of one of the restaurants near the Buddhist temple seeing how they make those "vegetarian look-alike" fish and ducks and pork ribs. Must involve some skill as a sculptor as well a chef.

 

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For a "fishy" seitan, add crumbled nori or other seaweed, or for a chicken-flavored seitan, add some poultry seasoning and use a vegetarian chicken-flavored broth.

 

The flavor is surprisingly authentic: really does taste like chicken or fish. One year I had several vegetarian friends and we often went to restaurants they selected (in Kunming.) Some places even offered "mock vegetables" made by one of the above methods. That always struck me as strange, but one place said the chef just liked to show off, producing "mock asparagus" and "mock corn on the cob" and such. 

 

I remember seeing a segment of a Chinese cooking show in which young pastry chefs are learning to roll and then carve baby animals and flowers out of well-kneaded pastry dough. Took a precise hand and a good eye. (Pretty sure it was one of the "Taste of China" segments.) 

 

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I think bakers use gluten in some white bread too, as even hard wheat with a high gluten content can be made to rise massively if given more gluten. 

 

Agree. I baked all my own bread for several years (before moving to China) and sought out hard wheat/high gluten flour to get a good rise. It was particularly helpful if using heavy whole grains in a recipe. The gluten provided extra punch and kept the loaf from turning out too dense. 

[Zeppa]

8 minutes ago, abcdefg said:

I remember seeing a segment of a Chinese cooking show in which young pastry chefs are learning to roll and then carve baby animals and flowers out of well-kneaded pastry dough. Took a precise hand and a good eye. (Pretty sure it was one of the "Taste of China" segments.) 

 

I didn't see that - haven't seen the whole thing. Are they not showing the method on YouTube yet, or the Chinese equivalent? I have just found some videos on how to make seitan.  

 

I think I would like to do a more western version, seitan like a dumpling, without adding broth, but served with fried mushrooms in a sauce.

 

This reminds me that I am supposed to be photographing food for my photography club, which may not be very successful, but I can find out how the Chinese carve carrots online! I have a light table, so partly translucent things might look good - who knows! 

[abcdefg]

5 hours ago, Zeppa said:

I think I would like to do a more western version, seitan like a dumpling, without adding broth, but served with fried mushrooms in a sauce.

 

Sounds good! Hope you will make it and post the method plus photos here. 

[Zeppa]

I am afraid that will be a very long wait - it is on my long-term list so may never happen!

[Zeppa]

I have just seen that there is a restaurant in London (Hackney and Camden) that opened a year ago serving seitan.

 

http://templeofseitan.co.uk/menu/

 

Perhaps it will do even better now that several branches of KFC here had to close because they ran out of chicken. 

[abcdefg]

How interesting! I would never have guessed. Imagine they were making a clever play on words, resembling "Temple of Satan." They would get burned at the stake here in the conservative Texas Bible Belt (where I am at the moment.) 

[Alex_Hart]

Glad to see people discussing wheat gluten as food! Most times I see anybody mention it, it's to deride it as the hated meat alternative. The 糖醋素鸡 in my school cafeteria is actually surprisingly good considering the overall quality of the cafeteria. It's also very popular because it's dirt cheap: 1 kuai for a bowl with two large slices of 素鸡, compared to 3-4 kuai for the veggie dishes and 4-8 kuai for the meat dishes. Only bean sprouts and a bowl of rice share that price! My carnivorous but broke classmate pretty much survives on these 3 dishes as he can have a meal for five kuai, saving money for BBQ on Fridays. Most of the 麻辣烫 places also stock it, either whole (which they'll rip apart) or in slices. My favorite preparation is definitely fried then stewed, or ripped up. I've often had it sliced in stir fries, but find it can become quite rubbery. 

 

I've been eating seitan/wheat gluten relatively often for a few years and really need to stress that the flavor of the gluten in China is totally different from the majority of wheat gluten back home in the US. My local store has a changing rotation, but they probably sell six or seven different forms of wheat gluten, almost all of which are quite tasty. None of these come in the shape or "flavor" of animal meat; the closest is 素鸡 . Seitan in the US was almost always pressed into bacon, or burgers, or sausages. My tofu 叔叔 has no ingredient labels, but the gluten has to be eaten within a day or two of purchase. The ones in the US can be pushed into your fridge for a year or more. In the larger Chinese supermarkets, there are also cans of wheat gluten. These are usually in the form of "mock meat," and usually come with a sauce. I haven't tried these much, I think they're more of a southern thing as I saw a lot of it in Hong Kong and in Cantonese Chinatowns - the most common one is mock duck which is fried till very crispy and served with a sauce. I've also had it stuffed with veg. While I've had this over a dozen times, only one restaurant has ever done it well.

Wheat gluten at my doufu shushu seems to be relatively popular. I often hang around after my purchase to talk to him, and a lot of people buy it. The most common one is definitely 烤麸, which is spongy. While I've had it served hot with 木耳, it's more commonly served in a cold salad. Virtually every vegetarian buffet has this dish during the summer months, and the supermarket salad bar also usually stocks it. The sponginess absorbs all the sauce, though the texture puts some people off. One of the monasteries nearby serves it with a sesame oil dressing that is really delicious, and I love how you get an explosion of flavor when you bite into it. I've also been served this as a side dish in a few restaurants.

[abcdefg]

 

10 hours ago, Alex_Hart said:

One of the monasteries nearby serves it with a sesame oil dressing that is really delicious, and I love how you get an explosion of flavor when you bite into it.

 

I'm going to have to look for some of this when I return to Kunming. 

[HuayangAcademy]

15 hours ago, abcdefg said:

return to Kunming

Check out the vegetarian/Buddhist restaurant in lianhuachi park, 

two buffets a day at 11am and 5pm. they have freezers of food to buy too 

 

It's 13kuai unlimited and all very very good food, maybe 5 soups a selection of fermented kind of toppings and fried and plain rice

normal dishes I'd say between 10-15

 

very good place to eat  

 

oh ye and they have meat alternatives some tofu some gluten and all really good

 

[abcdefg]

Thanks. I've been to that park, but don't remember a restaurant. Is it near an entrance, or near the lake? 

[HuayangAcademy]

It's on the lake, check it out and let us know what you think. 

 

[Alex_Hart]

On 3/1/2018 at 12:22 AM, abcdefg said:

I'm going to have to look for some of this when I return to Kunming. 

Would definitely give it a try! I've found it to be surprisingly polarizing - some people love it, some people hate it. It has no flavor in and of itself, but I think of it sort of as a flavor bomb. When it's sauteed with the 木耳, it fills up with the broth (I'm not sure what kind of broth they make it with - maybe vegetable stock with some bean paste and soy sauce?). I've made it at home a few times and never gotten it to taste quite right. I have a theory that the buffets make it best because it sits in a pan for quite some time, slowly absorbing whatever sauce it was served in. At home, I always cooked it and served it pretty fast. I will try again this summer and let you know.

Edited March 6, 2018 at 09:10 AM by Alex_Hart

[imron]

33 minutes ago, Alex_Hart said:

slowly absorbing whatever sauce it was served in.

Meat sauce.  Gives it that real meat flavor.