Are Chinese schools safe from multiple killings?

[社会主义好青年]

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Really?  Ask how many young people in China know about it, or would even believe it if you told them.  The government certainly tries very strongly to keep it under wraps.

Indeed the government certainly tries very strongly to keep it under wraps. But still everybody knows about it, even the young. I was born in china and left China after junior high. All my friends know about the incident. The political teacher carefully mentioned it as '89 incident' instead of '64 incident' as it was usually called, due to the sensitivity of the topic. But anyway, people know about it. 

And yes you could still find information about it with little effort even within the great firewall.

 

[HuayangAcademy]

I recently watched a show about the Australian gun control laws after the mass shooting and seems to have been an effective policy

[imron]

Sure, but Australia never had the same sort of gun culture that the US has, neither did it have anywhere near the same number of guns in circulation (either total or per capita).

 

There are a large portion of gun owners in the US who strongly believe gun ownership is an important safeguard against government tyranny (this sentiment was never really strong in Australia).  Those people also see the first sign of that tyranny (backed my multiple historical examples) is the government taking away guns.  Trying to take them away is only going to exacerbate their belief in the importance of owning guns, and no matter how strictly you enforce a ban, there will always be a large number of guns in circulation.

 

Legally owned firearms only account for a relatively small portion of gun violence in the US.  Take away the legally owned guns and you'll still be left with the majority of illegal gun violence.

 

This is an interesting read.

[roddy]

I’ve set this topic to automatically close if we get lots of posts solely about gun policy outside China. 

[艾墨本]

I’m also interested in why the OP would ask this question as a first post and then remain outside of the discussion. 

 

@JohnnyT what’s you take on it? Why do you worry about gun violence? 

 

Also @imron thanks for being informed on the complexity of this issue. This is the first time I’ve seen a non-American understand the many factors at play.

 

As for China, as stated multiple times, its impossible to discuss statistics when they don’t exist. There was a massive protest in Chengdu while I was there. No one but locals ever heard about it. It did not make it to the foreign media and never circulated in China. 

 

Im aware this is a single anecdote, but I use it as representative of a general situation. It’s naive to think that if an event is big enough, censorship can’t contain it. This falls victim to confirmation bias. Yes, big events do make the rounds, that does not mean others didn’t get contained.

 

Censoring terrorism and mass killings is an instance where I am not against China’s decision to censor the events. I am against the decision not to release the statistics. I am also against the refusal of many Chinese to directly recognize the problems that have and continue to lead to such events.

 

To me the the crux of this question is, is China safer than the US with all the gun violence. I firmly believe it isn’t for three reasons.

1) medical care here in China often does more harm then good. I’ve seen this first hand in many instances. 

2) environmental issues. They won’t kill you with a bang, but they slowly kill everyone. Pick your poison.

3) Traffic in China kills many. As an American from an area with statistically a lot of gun violence, I know zero people who were a victim of gun violence. I have also never even seen a gun outside of a store and gun ranges. I’ve lost count of bloody corpses I have seen on Chinese roads laid bare next to a crumpled moped.

 

[Jim]

16 minutes ago, 艾墨本 said:

To me the the crux of this question is, is China safer than the US with all the gun violence. I firmly believe it isn’t for three reasons.

1) medical care here in China often does more harm then good. I’ve seen this first hand in many instances. 

2) environmental issues. They won’t kill you with a bang, but they slowly kill everyone. Pick your poison.

3) Traffic in China kills many. As an American from an area with statistically a lot of gun violence, I know zero people who were a victim of gun violence. I have also never even seen a gun outside of a store and gun ranges. I’ve lost count of bloody corpses I have seen on Chinese roads laid bare next to a crumpled moped.

Strikes me as a false comparison. All those other issues China faces are amenable to different policy approaches and bar maybe the environment can be expected to improve over time. Conversely, the US has largely solved these safety issues (not counting the medically uninsured for argument's sake) yet still has a risk of mass deaths from shooting. Just seems odd to bring in a whole raft of other risk factors when I think we're on a narrow question of the potential for murderous attacks on schools.

[艾墨本]

2 minutes ago, Jim said:

Strikes me as a false comparison. All those other issues China faces are amenable to different policy approaches and bar maybe the environment can be expected to improve over time. Conversely, the US has largely solved these safety issues (not counting the medically uninsured for argument's sake) yet still has a risk of mass deaths from shooting. Just seems odd to bring in a whole raft of other risk factors when I think we're on a narrow question of the potential for murderous attacks on schools.

 

Hence the line “To me the the crux of this question is, is China safer than the US with all the gun violence. I firmly believe it isn’t for three reasons.”

 

if the question were to stop at the surface of does it exist, the answer is as Imron has outlined: dunno, censorship. 

 

Id like to here more from the OP though.

[imron]

52 minutes ago, 艾墨本 said:

I firmly believe it isn’t for three reasons.

To be fair though, those three reasons are not going be all that relevant to foreigners who do not live in China for an extended periods of time.  I would have thought traffic was likely to be the most dangerous, but according to this article it comes in third place behind heart attacks and alcohol poisoning.

[studychinese]

Re: US crime. When you compare similar demographic groups in the US to the same kind of demographic groups in Europe, crime rates are almost the same. As demographics begin to change in Europe those crime rates will likely come to resemble America, gun control or not. New Hampshire in the USA has a comparable population to the UK, and a similar murder rate. Chicago does not have a population like any European country, and has much higher murder rates. It does however have a similar murder rate with countries with similar demographic profiles.

 

Re: China. Mass killings can happen in China without guns. What about the mass stabbings in Kunming?

[Jim]

3 minutes ago, studychinese said:

Re: US crime. When you compare similar demographic groups in the US to the same kind of demographic groups in Europe, crime rates are almost the same. As demographics begin to change in Europe those crime rates will likely come to resemble America, gun control or not. New Hampshire in the USA has a comparable population to the UK, and a similar murder rate. Chicago does not have a population like any European country, and has much higher murder rates. It does however have a similar murder rate with countries with similar demographic profiles.

This smacks of some bullshit race "science" - compare comparatively rural New Hampshire to the UK that includes London, Glasgow etc and indeed the troubled north of Ireland, then pick a single major metropolis and compare it against various independent nations. Or are you trying to say something other than black people with "demographic profiles"?

[studychinese]

3 minutes ago, Jim said:

This smacks of some bullshit race "science" - compare comparatively rural New Hampshire to the UK that includes London, Glasgow etc and indeed the troubled north of Ireland, then pick a single major metropolis and compare it against various independent nations. Or are you trying to say something other than black people with "demographic profiles"?

 

If you are talking "troubled Northern Ireland", the murder rate there is about 30% lower than than the rest of the UK which includes diverse demographic profiles like London, which probably skew the overall murder rate somewhat.

 

I don't know why you are being so hostile. It only makes sense to compare comparable populations to each other. Apples to apples not apples to oranges. 100% armed Switzerland has less than half the murder rate of the gun controlled UK. The demographic profile of the UK and Switzerland are quite different, though.

 

In Britain there was a 700 year 'war on murder' which had a significant effect on the propensity of the British population to commit acts of violence, just like someone might breed cattle, a dog, or any other animal for certain traits. It should be obvious that populations that have no undergone this process are going to be different.

[Jim]

5 minutes ago, studychinese said:

It only makes sense to compare comparable populations to each other.

Exactly, which is why you have to question why you'd make the farcical comparisons in your first post unless it was to push some unsavoury agenda.

[studychinese]

5 minutes ago, Jim said:

Exactly, which is why you have to question why you'd make the farcical comparisons in your first post unless it was to push some unsavoury agenda.

 

OK, friend. What "unsavory agenda" is this?

[Jim]

Answer my question about the "demographic profiles"mentioned in your earlier post and let's see.

[studychinese]

7 minutes ago, Jim said:

Answer my question about the "demographic profiles"mentioned in your earlier post and let's see.

 

Of course I mean that. It isn't the same demographic profile. Hit me up with your "hate facts" argument or whatever. Go to town.

[Jim]

Point is they're not facts. You've proceeded from your prejudice, cherry-picked some far-fetched comparisons that make no sense and bizarrely inserted it into a discussion of safety in Chinese schools. Weird obsession and laughably delusional. A hundred years ago you'd have been measuring Slav heads.

[studychinese]

19 minutes ago, Jim said:

Point is they're not facts. You've proceeded from your prejudice, cherry-picked some far-fetched comparisons that make no sense and bizarrely inserted it into a discussion of safety in Chinese schools. Weird obsession and laughably delusional. A hundred years ago you'd have been measuring Slav heads.

 

OK, friend. You have changed my mind. You have impressed me with your brave and unorthodox stand against muh racism. Do you have a patreon or something where I can contribute?

[Jim]

12 minutes ago, studychinese said:

OK, friend. You have changed my mind. You have impressed me with your brave and unorthodox stand against muh racism. Do you have a patreon or something where I can contribute?

It's more just contempt for the weak-kneed pseudo-rationality of the modern scientific racists. Not afraid to look the squarely at the facts -- once you've made them up to fit.

[Lu]

This discussion has resorted to unpleasantness. Topic is now closed.