Sex and Psychology in China

[Xiao Kui]

I have a friend here in Argentina who is a counselor for victims of sexual abuse- mostly children. She was asking me if sexual abuse of children is a big problem in China. I lived in China 5 years but I didn't hear much about this, except that it does exist, and was wondering if it is common. Also I was wondering how it was addressed, counseled, etc. There seems to be a lack of counseling in general in China. So I have a few questions and hope that Chinese (mainland or otherwise) forum users will respond, and also foreigners who have insight.

1. Is the sexual abuse of children a major problem in China?

2. If so who are usually the perpetrators- family, teachers, etc.?

3. Do Chinese parents talk to their kids abt sex? At what age? How detailed are the discussions and what are their nature: ex. Do they talk abt pregnancy, STDs,contraception, puberty, protecting oneself from abuse, the pleasure of sex, abstinence until marriage, etc.

4. If there is a problem with sexual abuse how is it addressed: covered up, reported to police, is the child counseled etc.?

I also was curious abt. counseling, psychiatry, psychology in general, not necessarily for victims of sexual abuse. After those campus slayings last year in Yunnan and elsewhere mental health became a hot topic especially for uni students and I saw a lot of red banners abt it on the Sichuan U campus last year, but I wondered if there were counseling services for students actually available,and other questions such as:

5.. Are people increasingly seeking professional counseling in China: is it a growing industry with increasing career opportunities?

6. How is the Chinese style of counseling and therapy different from western?

7.Is there a negative stigma associated with seeking counseling services, and if so how negative?

I'd really appreciate some feedback on this. I spent too much of my time in China memorizing Hanzi and not enough understanding the culture and people. I have a lot of catching up to do!-XK

[Xiao Kui]

I just want to clarify:I'm sorry for my statement: "There seems to be a lack of counseling in general in China." It doesn't really reflect what I mean. Just compared to US and Argentina people don's seem to talk abt counseling much, though in fact I've seen advertisements and offices for psychologists in China and some of the radio call in shows and TV shows do have a lot of people calling in for advice. Perhaps counseling just comes in a different form such as advice from teachers, friends, family,etc? - The US and Argentina have been described as nations on the couch because of an overuse of therapy. Ok, I'll stop digging my own grave (it's hard with your foot in your mouth, anyway) with trying to be politically correct. Just am eager for responses and don't want to turn you guys off with any uninformed generalizations.

[chenpv]

Well, it's my first time to get involved into this kind of thread, but I want to reply to it even though which information I have is limited. So if there are any other guys who know more, please share with us.

1. Is the sexual abuse of children a major problem in China?

I dont think sexual abuse of children is a major problem in China but I cannot deny it does happen. Since talking about sex is still a taboo in China (especially in rural regions), it is understandable that all the statistics showing sexual abuse of children are to some extent incomplete and do not reflect the truth. but i can assure you that any chinese who shows humanity and sanity will not choose to sexually abuse children. and the nation wont let any criminal to get away with that.And one thing, how do u define 'children' 'sexual abuse' in this thread? Any answer would be senseless without a clear definition.

2. If so who are usually the perpetrators- family, teachers, etc.?

The news media has uncovered lots of cases, in which family members, teachers are perpetrators. But I cannot figure out any convincible answer, insomuch as there arent any authentic figures available, right? (;-P)

3. Do Chinese parents talk to their kids abt sex? At what age? How detailed are the discussions and what are their nature: ex. Do they talk abt pregnancy, STDs,contraception, puberty, protecting oneself from abuse, the pleasure of sex, abstinence until marriage, etc.

Some parents talk to their kids about some aspects of sex and other parents find different ways to let their kids know something about it. My parents are both doctors and they just occasionally asked me about changes of my body during puberty and gave me some advice on taking care of myself. Also, my father has a book in medical sexology, so I had got a chance to take a detailed look at it when alone. But I never tried to talk about it with my parents, neither did they, even though they knew i was reading it.

I think in china, sex education is conducted mainly by schools. During junior middle school, the science teacher will teach puberty and reproductive systems of human, while in high school, the headmaster will invite someone (like police officer, psychologist) to tell us how to protect ourselves, and in college, there are many elected courses coping with sex education.Actually what I am wondering is whether all the students would take those sex education serious.

4. If there is a problem with sexual abuse how is it addressed: covered up, reported to police, is the child counseled etc.?

I am not quite clear about your question. what kind of problem are you referring to?

5.Are people increasingly seeking professional counseling in China: is it a growing industry with increasing career opportunities?

I believe so, especially in big cities. More and more people realize the equal importance of both physical and mental health. And our govenment has started to make relative regulations on that topic.

6. How is the Chinese style of counseling and therapy different from western?

Beats me, I havent been to a therapist yet. But my parents are my best friends and we share most our ideas.

7.Is there a negative stigma associated with seeking counseling services, and if so how negative?

Well people tend to have different ideas on going to a therapist, so gossips are inevitable in some circumstances. Since there is no true figures availabe, I think any answer to 'how negative' is subjective- inclined.

Thats all I know, hope it would help.

[Xiao Kui]

Thanks for your response, chenpv. To clarify what i meant in questions 1 and 4:

1.What I mean by sexual abuse of children is adults having sex with children (under eighteen), touching children inappropriately (in their private body parts), or exploiting children for sex such as telling children to undress or taking their pictures undressed or using them in prostitution. It's a very broad definition but the main thing is that adults are getting children to participate in sexual activities. This is what we usually mean by the sexual abuse of children in the west, other cultures may have their own definitions.

4. What I mean by a problem with sexual abuse and how it is responded to is for example if it came to the attention of a teacher that a child was being touched inappropriately by a family member, what would the teacher do (this is just an example, maybe a teacher did sth. bad to a student and the parent found out.) Would the teacher keep quiet, or find out if it was true, tell the schoolmaster, report it to the police. For example here is a common scenario in the States: A child is sexually abused by a family member, teacher, or family friend - the way it might come to someone's attention is the child goes to the doctor and the doctor sees that the child has been involved in some kind of sexual activity. So the doctor might call the police or the Department of Social Services to find out who did it and then send the kid to live somewhere else. They also will have a counselor talk to the kid so they will know what happened to them was wrong and it wasn't their fault, because kids often feel guilty when they are the victims of crimes such as this. These emotions can affect them the rest of their life. They also may act out sexually: for example become too sexually active with too many different people because they were exposed to sexual activity at such an early age when they weren't ready for it.

[gato]

Important topic, Xiao Kui. It's still relatively taboo, but I think awareness about the problem might be increasing. See the three articles below. Abuse is 虐待 in Chinese. You should be able to find out more if you do a search for 儿童虐待 on Google.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4559105.stm

Backed by Unicef and carried out by the All China Women's Federation, it is said to be the first scientific survey to tackle the issue in China.

Almost half of the thousands questioned said they had suffered some form of physical abuse in childhood. The survey's organisers gathered their information through anonymous questionnaires completed by more than 3,500 university students in six provinces.

Among the abuse which close to half of the respondents reported were instances of being hit, kicked or slapped. About one in three said they had been beaten with an object, like a stick or belt.

Schools emerged as a key place for violence. Teachers, who command high levels of status and respect in China, are described as key perpetrators of severe physical punishment and abuse.

Sexual abuse was also covered. The survey says that "substantial numbers" of boys and even more girls suffered unwanted sexual experiences, ranging from being talked to in an obscene way to inappropriate fondling and even child rape.

But the survey's findings showed a clear link between maltreatment in childhood and mental health problems in later life, including alcohol abuse, violence and thoughts of suicide.

http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2005-05-27/15236768372.shtml

调查显示全国74.8%的儿童被虐待 1成被性侵犯

http://www.women.org.cn/allnews/06/2264.html

调查：香港人虐儿及虐待配偶情况严重

[Xiao Kui]

thanks for the articles Gato- just the kind of information I'm looking for. I'll have to do my own search and research it some more. Still hope to hear from more Chinese forum users abt their opinions on this.

[fenlan]

I think this is a very political topic. The benefits of widespread sex education in the West have not been proven - this is a very controversial subject. And it is unfortunately the case that the victim offers suffers greatly even from attempts to address child abuse within the family. What I mean is that the child is taken away from the family, and put in a chidlren's home - and frequently abused further there. I think the best interests of the child should be the key, but it is difficult to resolve, as the best interests are to be living in a loving family - not to stay with an abusing family, but not to live in a children's home either. So the children are lost sight of as this political subject is fought over by the parents, social workers, police and others. China should think carefully before assuming that the Western approach should be adopted wholesale in China.

[wushijiao]

5.. Are people increasingly seeking professional counseling in China: is it a growing industry with increasing career opportunities?

I read an article about the surge in demand for psychologists and therapists. But, as one might imagine, there aren't many qualified therapists, and thus the price of seeing one is quite high. So I doubt most normal people could afford therapy.

I agree with fenlan that abuse against kids and abuse against women is a political problem. And, to some degree, the problem can be solved through politics, with strong social support.

Here is a bit from social critic David Brooks in the New York Times talking about abuse in the US:

"According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the rate of family violence in this country has dropped by more than half since 1993. I've been trying to figure out why.

A lot of the credit has to go to the people who have been quietly working in this field: to social workers who provide victims with counseling and support; to women's crisis centers, which help women trapped in violent relationships find other places to live; to police forces and prosecutors, who are arresting more spouse-beaters and putting them away.

The Violence Against Women Act, which was passed in 1994, must have also played a role, focusing federal money and attention"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/07/opinion/07brooks.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fDavid%20Brooks

So, I think, if a society addresses these problems openly and with concern for the victims, some horrible, life-ruining abuse can be stopped.

[Xiao Kui]

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I do want to add that I was merely giving example of one kind of example of a possible response to a case of child abuse. I am personally more in favor of counseling which encourages the victims to take action themselves, the only way this can be done with kids is preventative education. If the perpetrator is a teacher or an extended family member: uncle, cousin, etc. the child is encouraged to tell a parent or teacher so the child can be protected from that person. of course this is more complicated when the child is abused by a family member. Because one parent is reluctant to break up the family over the abuse of the other parent the child is often told to keep quiet or accused of lying. Then there are also some cases when parents are falsely accused of abuse by a child or the Department of Social Services wrongly believes the child is being abused by the parents and takes the child away from the parents, and yes the places the children are sent to are sometimes no better than the abusive home. So I am not suggesting China adopt these western methods wholesale (though I think counseling is good!- from the responses I'm getting abt counseling I'm assuming that Chinese schools do not have guidance counselors for helping kids who want help) but was wondering how China deals with these kind of problems.

[chenpv]

I find this topic very interesting. but why there arent many chinese responding to this thread. so why not break the survey limit and let the westerners answer those questions. it could be fun to have a comparison.

They also may act out sexually: for example become too sexually active with too many different people because they were exposed to sexual activity at such an early age when they weren't ready for it.

Xiao kui, is that true? can you supply some formal research papers, i would like to read them since its part of the psychology.

Backed by Unicef and carried out by the All China Women's Federation

gato, i dont know how you regard this article. But as to me, a chinese, i do not totally believe it. you might think that i am trying to speak for the chinese govenment and cover the truth. while oppositely, i am a person who love and try to see everything in middle without partiality. i confess my CCP membership but i dont think theres any obligation for me to speak for the party.

ok, back to the point. why should i doubt this survey? just the quotation above. i should say, except absolute solon and idiot, everyone of us would deal with the world complying with 'the-rule-of-biggest-benefits'. its right for american govenment, so is for ours. now we ll see: the reason for chinese govenment doing this are the following:

(a). admit that the children abuse issue exists, which is universal in the world so that give westeren world an impression that china is not at all special. ------ to acquire identification.

(B). to coorperate with UN------to show her responsibility and ability

©. to have a chance to tackle relative issues------- to call for domestic attention as well as build a more comfortable society

(d). to gain certain fund and help from UN if possible.

SO you can imagine how important the figure is. After years of reading articles about cheating on figures by certain departments, i would rather take this survey as a week reference.

Almost half of the thousands questioned said they had suffered some form of physical abuse in childhood.

this is a controversial question on whether the parents should take physical punishment as a way of education. i dont know what it is like in US but i believe parents there do so.

while i dont think all these students have the same idea of boundary between 'physical abuse' and 'physical punishment'. Take a 'slap' as an example, some poeple may think it overdone but others find it trivial. and if everyone is doing the survey by his own limit, and whats the value of this survey? so in coping with this kind of problem, we should not make it as a whole but in categories: such strong-in-mind, less strong-in-mind, media, less-sensitive, sensitive. and i believe the result would differ 'substantially'.

and whats the effect of physical punishment? i heard on the news that some research shows more positivity than negativity. but i prefer to show that through people around me.

[chenpv]

first talking about me, my parents did physically punish me when i was young and mischievous. they believe in '玉不琢，不成器'. so thats why i am so generous and excellent now (show off, ). but the 'strangest' thing is i am feeling quite released and thankful to my parents afterwards and those punishments (i can assure you i had some 'fierce' punishments but they are privacy. ) didnt at all jeopardise our relationship, we became best friends. so if i was taken to the survey i would have said i am kind of physical punished but my gratitude would not have shown in the final figures.

then the friends, some of my friends have the same ideas of me. and very few geniuses allege they were free from punishments(how could they do that?). some of my schoolmates are reluctant to tell(why?). ----------- sorry i havent got a conclusion yet. just original data (not representative).

but i find an interesting phenomenon among my primary school buddies. those who are under a relative loose control are inclined to creat their own personalities but not good at study although they are very excellent, showing no hostility to families or society. However, they show a lack of confident when talking to the guys who are doing great in scores.( ) it seems to me that they are admiring the 100-guy and showing a little bit querimony to their parents. (why?) hard to believe.

ooops its quite late now, i have to stop here, but gato's post is so seductive for me to comment. (sorry gato, i hope you are not gonna freak out.)

[gato]

gato, i dont know how you regard this article. But as to me, a chinese, i do not totally believe it. you might think that i am trying to speak for the chinese govenment and cover the truth.

Are you saying that the BBC article was trying to sensationalize the issue? There might be a little bit of that in the headline, but the substance of that article was more or less straight from the 全国妇女联合会 survey. I think it's a good thing that the Chinese government is trying to bring awareness to the issue. I am Chinese myself, and I know that Chinese parents traditionally have not had the greatest of communication with their kids. The communication generally has been one-way, from the parents to the children, but not in the other direction. Understandably they've focused more attention on filling their kids' bellies than worrying about their psychological needs, but I think you understand that psychological needs are often just as important.

As for physical punishment (also known as corporal punishment), it used to be common among American parents and teachers, too, maybe as recent as 30 years ago. But now it's banned by law in most American schools, and even parents can be prosecuted if they are excessive about it. I've heard of stories of cultural clash in the US, where neighbors would report immigrant parents to the police for beating their kids. These immigrant parents might have felt it entirely within their right to slap their kids around. I don't believe in corporal punishment. I rarely suffered it myself, and I don't think I would have been a better person if I had.

[fenlan]

Well, I think there is a world of difference between light corporal punishment of a child and sexual molestation, and the word "abuse" seems designed to obscure the distinction...I do not believe that most, or even many, Chinese parents sexually abuse their children...

[chenpv]

The survey's organisers gathered their information through anonymous questionnaires completed by more than 3,500 university students in six provinces.

gato, can you give me a reason that why they chose 'university students' only for the survey?

I dont know whether you are student or not, if you are, so how would you fill up a questionnaire concerning with some sensitive topics. I am a university student. and i will tell you how we deal with that: we discuss what could be finally written-----the most proper/correct answers. Dont show surprise, its the fact at least in here.

Schools emerged as a key place for violence. Teachers, who command high levels of status and respect in China, are described as key perpetrators of severe physical punishment and abuse.

Yes, these are sometimes reported in the newspapers with supportive police evidences. I admit that.

Sexual abuse was also covered.

yes, maybe.

PS:what i want to talk about here is about our especially maybe elder juvenile's notion about sex. Have you noticed that we are greatly influenced by the western world. i remember when i was a kid, it was still taboo to talk about male-female relationships, there was always a cold war between boys and girls. but now there is a change in that, children are pround to have good relations with opposite gender partners, and they will think it too gay-like to be with a same gender partner. isnt that interesting?

But the survey's findings showed a clear link between maltreatment in childhood and mental health problems in later life, including alcohol abuse, violence and thoughts of suicide.

violence is a factor while it is believed that 'CARE' and 'LOVE' are more important factors.

Are you saying that the BBC article was trying to sensationalize the issue?

Thats what news media is for, i am not surprised.

that article was more or less straight from the 全国妇女联合会 survey.

I'd like to see a survey conducted by 中国社会科学院.

[Xiao Kui]

Chenpv,

You asked about my quote abt the long term effects of childhood sexual abuse. Here is one paper that links criminal behavior to adults who were victims of sexual abuse as children. It's at http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/abuse.txt The site is run by the National Criminal Justice Reference Service, a division of the US Department of Justice. -Xiao Kui

[gato]

gato, can u give me a reason that why should they choose 'university students' only?

They probably went to university students because of convenience. It's introduces a problem of selection bias, which you have hinted at. But getting a representative sample all across the country would have required much, much more effort, something maybe 全国妇女联合会 is not equipped to undertake. I would like to see 中国社会科学院 take up the issue, too, but I'm not sure that this is on their priority list. It seems that their energy is focused on economic and political problems right now. I did find that their sociology department has done some survey on parenting methods: http://203.93.24.66/pws/shixiuyin/dcwj_shixiuyin/P020050125580725623468.pdf

Don't know what came of it.

Xiao Kui: Here are some sites discussing the impact of Freud (弗洛伊德) and psychoanalysis (精神分析) in China.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/banyt/2005-07/06/content_3181128.htm

中国人20年来的精神历程

http://www.womencare.com.cn/jiankang/jiankang0012.htm

中国不需要弗洛伊德

http://bj3.netsh.com/bbs/112897/

精神分析的窝棚

http://www.cnread.net/cnread1/bgwx/m/maitianshu/000/001.htm

性问题采访手记（节选）