Study Group 史記:《魏其武安侯列傳》

[somethingfunny]

I thought this might have some historical reason, so I did a quick search and found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_regnant

[somethingfunny]

I underestimated how long this would take, and I’ve only managed to do the first paragraph.  Although, given the length of my translation, and the number of questions I have, it’s probably for the best I only did the first bit.  I ended up having to do a (very) rough first translation, and then go back through and try to tidy it up.  I cracked and consulted a modern mandarin translation on Baidu.  Despite this, I was still foiled largely by all the dynastic titles and customs.  If anyone is willing to help, some more focus on appropriate terminology would be very welcome.

 

Anyway, here is my translation of the first paragraph, and underneath are some particular questions that I have:

 

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Lord Dou of WeiJi was the nephew of Empress Dowager Dou.  His ancestors were from Guanjin, and he enjoyed the service of courtiers and retainers.  At the time of Emperor Wen, Lord Dou was Prime Minister for King Bi of Wu, although he relinquished the post because of illness.  When Emperor Jing had just taken his position, he (Lord Dou) acted as overseer of affairs.  King Xiao of Liang was the brother of Emperor Jing.  His mother, Empress Dowager Dou loved him (King Xiao) very much, and when King Xiao was in audience, he relied on his brother’s position to attend banquet.  At this time, the Emperor (Jing) had not yet appointed an heir was intoxicated and said: “After a thousand Autumns (i.e. when I die), King Liang will inherit the throne.”  The Empress Dowager Dou was pleased.  Lord Dou lifted his cup and made a toast to Emperor Xiao Jing, saying “天下者，高祖天下; the throne should pass from father to son, this is the arrangement of the Han.  Your highness, by what means do you intend to pass instead to King Xiao of Liang?” At this, Empress Dou felt contempt for Lord Dou.  Lord Dou thought little of his position (as overseer of affairs), and relinquished it using his illness as an excuse.  Empress Dowager Dou removed the entrance-exit rights of Ying Dou so that he couldn’t come in and sit in audience. 

 

In the third year of Emperor Jing’s reign, at the time of the Wu-Chu rebellion, he surveyed his relations and all those of the name Dou and found none of them to be as worthy (for succession) as Lord Dou.  So, he sent for Lord Dou and held an audience with him, although Lord Dou used his illness as an excuse to say that he was still not able to serve.  The Empress Dowager Dou was ashamed, and as a result, the King said: “The situation in the world is urgent, how is it that you, the King’s grandson, would give way?” He then made Lord Dou a general and gave him an offering of a thousand gold Jin.  Lord Dou then said that Yuan Ang and Luan Bu were both at home and he recommended them to the King.  All of the gold was put on display in the corridor and anyone passing by was allowed to take what they wanted at their own discretion – none of the gold was taken home.

 

Lord Dou was defending the Xingyang road, watching the troops of Qi and Zhao.  Once the armies of the seven states were more or less destroyed, the title of Lord of Wei was bestowed (by Emperor Jing?) on Ying Dou.  All of the strategists, retainers and courtiers tried as much as possible to return with Lord Dou.  At the time of Emperor Jing, every time there was an audience with the Emperor to discuss large matters of state, nobody dared to position themselves on the same level as Zhouya Fu or Lord Dou.

 

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Questions:

1. In the opening line, why is Lord Dou referred to as the nephew of the Empress Dowager, rather than the Emperor?
2. Still not sure how to translate 宾客 in this sentence - I think this might be because I don't really know what courtiers or retainers are.
3. 孝景初即位（时）- should I understand it like this? "At the time when Emperor Jing first ascended the throne".
4. 梁孝王朝 what is this 朝 doing?
5. 天下者，高祖天下 I suspect there’s a lot of meaning packed into here, but I can’t get it out.
6. 太后除竇嬰門籍，不得入朝請。I had a go at this, but doubt I’ve done very well.
7. Wu-Chu rebellion?  Forgive my ignorance.
8. When Emperor Jing realises that Lord Dou is actually the most capable member of the family, does he have a specific position in mind for him, or does he just want him to ‘come back into the fold’, as it were?
9. 王孫寧可以讓邪？Sigh.  Who is 王孙？I take 宁可 as a rhetorical question marker and therefore 以让 as “by what means to avoid”.  So I assume 王孙 is Lord Dou himself.
10. When the Emperor tried to appoint Lord Dou as a general, what happens?  Does he refuse and recommend Yuan Ang and Luan Bu as replacements for himself?  Then leave the gold lying around for anyone that pleases?

Ten questions should be more than enough.

[Publius]

1. I don't think nephew is the right term. 從兄(=堂兄) is an older male paternal cousin sharing the same family name. Depending on whether they share a grandfather or great-grandfather or great-great-grandfather, this person is either Empress Dou's father's brother's son (first cousin) or Empress Dou's father's father's son's son (second cousin) or Empress Dou's father's father's father's son's son's son (third cousin). I think it's safe to say he is Empress Dou's cousin from the male line of the Dou family. And Dou Ying is his son.

Chinese kinship terms are more granular, so to speak, than English, with a focus on the male lineage. Because China is a patriarchal society and family name is a big deal. The emperor's family name is Liu. The relatives on his side are 漢室宗親. The empress's family name is Dou. The relatives on her side are 外戚. Big difference. Unlike the Liu House, their fate is tied to a particular woman. Emperors die and an emperor has many wives.

 

2. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retainers_in_early_China_(social_group)

 

3. Yes.

 

4. 朝 = 朝見天子 to have an audience with the emperor. There's a group of words with practically the same meaning, e.g. 春見曰朝，夏見曰宗，秋見曰覲，冬見曰遇…… according to 《周禮》.

 

5. No idea.

 

6. Your translation is good. 門籍 are bamboo strips used to keep track of who has the security clearance.

 

7. Same event, different name: https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hant/七国之乱

 

8. Obviously the emperor wants Dou Ying to lead the forces against the rebels.

 

9. 王孫 is a general term for the offspring of a royal family or nobility. Here of course the emperor is referring to Dou Ying by his status.

寧 = 豈、難道. 讓 = 推辭 to decline. And yes it's a rhetorical question: 'How can you decline?'

 

10. He had already accepted the appointment when he recommended two other men to the emperor. He didn't take the gold himself, but gave all the gold away to his subordinates.

 

P.S. 梁孝王朝，因昆弟燕飲。 I think this 因 is an adverb that means 於是.

And 歸 = 歸附 to submit to.

[Xuan]

My translation is below.
I seem to have underestimated in the same way as you, somethingfunny.  This is the first time I've ever actually written out a translation in English.  One line of literary Chinese comes out to more than three lines of English!  I now really appreciate the brevity and pith of 古文.

I've marked out a few points where I think our understandings of the text differ.
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Dou Ying, the Lord of Weiji, was the son of the cousin of Dowager Empress Dou (孝文后從兄子).  His father’s line had for generations been people of Guanji, and their retainers were pleased to be in their service (喜賓客).  In Emperor Han Xiao Wen (Liu Heng)’s time, Dou Ying had been the minister of Wu, though he withdrew from the position due to illness.  When Emperor Han Jing first ascended the throne, he served as Overseer of Affairs.

King Xiao of Liang (Liu Wu) was the younger brother of Emperor Han Xiao Jing (Liu Qi).  His mother, Dowager Empress Dou loved (and favored) him, so he came to court, and feasted and drank (with the emperor and others) as a brother-and-brother (not as a ruler-and-subject).  At the time, Emperor Xiao Jing had not yet established a successor, and amidst the merriment of the feast(酒酣), he blithely said, “After my thousand autumns, I will pass (the throne) to you, King Liang.”  

Dowager Dou was pleased.  (However,) Dou Ying took his cup of wine, raised it, and said, “The realm is the realm of Emperor Han Gaozu (’s making).  The son succeeds the father; this is the rule of Han.  How then can His Majesty pass the throne to King Liang (his brother)?”  

Dowager Dou despised him for this. (Later,) Dou Ying, who had disdained his office, stepped down claiming illness.  Dowager Dou revoked his permit/clearance, which made him unable to have audiences with the emperor.

In the third year of Xiao Jing’s reign, Wu and Chu rebelled.  The emperor understood (察) that none of his kin nor any those of the Dou clan were as sagacious as Dou Ying, and so he summoned him.  Dou Ying entered and appeared before the emperor, but resolutely refused his request, claiming that illness had made him unsuitable.  Dowager Dou felt ashamed at this (knowing she was partly to blame for Dou Ying’s refusal).  

Then, the emperor said, “The realm is now facing an emergency!  How can a relative of the throne demur (at at time like this)!?”  

Thereupon, he appointed Dou Ying commander in chief of his armies, and gifted him 1000 jin of gold.  Dou YIng spoke of Yuan Ang, Luan Bu and other such commanders and wise men of note who were at home, and recommended them (for the emperor’s service).  

The gold given by the emperor was arrayed under a portico.  Functionaries from the military came, and (Dou Ying) frequently ordered them to weigh out and take some of it to be used for expenses.  None of the gold was taken home (for private gain).  

Dou Ying stood in control over Xingyang and supervised the armies of Qi and Zhao, (which had rebelled with Wu and Chu but had been brought to battle and surrendered.)  After the armies of all seven rebel countries had been completely defeated, Dou Ying was enfeoffed as Lord of Weiji, and many wandering knights and (discharged) retainers vied to cleave to him and take up his service.  During Xiao Jing’s reign, whenever the court was assembled and great matters were discussed, no one dared to treat Lord Tiao (Zhou Yafu) or Lord Weiji as a mere equal.

[Xuan]

Below is the second paragraph:

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In Xiao Jing’s fourth year, he established Li Rong as crown prince, and had Lord Weiji become his teacher (太子傅).  In the seventh year, Li Rong was deposed as crown prince, and though Weiji repeatedly argued the matter (with the emperor), he (Weiji) could not convince him.  Weiji excused himself by claiming illness, and went to live secluded at the foot of the Southern Mountain in Lantian for several months.  

 

Many of his retainers (came and) spoke with him, but none could bring him back to the capital.  Gao Sui, a man of Liang, then said, “The one who gave you wealth and status was the emperor; the one you treated you dearly was the dowager.  You, General, were the teacher of the crown prince, but he was deposed from his position and (the emperor) would brook no argument.  You fought with him (about it), but could not win, and you would not offer your life (to change his mind). (Instead), you resigned claiming illness, and are living in seclusion here with a beautiful woman you brought, and have not come to court.  If you think about it, this is clearly an act of pointing out the fault of the ruler.  If the emperor and dowager become angry with you for this, they will kill all your kindred. “

 

Lord Weiji recognized this to be right, and then roused himself (from his sickbed) and returned to court as before.

[Xuan]

Shall we set our reading quota for this week?

 

How about from p.733 -735?

 

桃侯免相，竇太后數言魏其侯。孝景帝曰：「太后豈以為臣有愛，不相魏其？魏其者，沾沾自喜耳，多易。難以為相，持重。」遂不用，用建陵侯衛綰為丞相。

 

武安侯田蚡者，孝景后同母弟也，生長陵。魏其已為大將軍後，方盛，蚡為諸郎，未貴，往來侍酒魏其，跪起如子姓。及孝景晚節，蚡益貴幸，為太中大夫。蚡辯有口，學槃盂諸書，王太后賢之。孝景崩，即日太子立，稱制，所鎮撫多有田蚡賓客計筴，蚡弟田勝，皆以太后弟，孝景後三年封蚡為武安侯，勝為周陽侯。

 

武安侯新欲用事為相，卑下賓客，進名士家居者貴之，欲以傾魏其諸將相。建元元年，丞相綰病免，上議置丞相、太尉。籍福說武安侯曰：「魏其貴久矣，天下士素歸之。今將軍初興，未如魏其，即上以將軍為丞相，必讓魏其。魏其為丞相，將軍必為太尉。太尉、丞相尊等耳，又有讓賢名。」武安侯乃微言太后風上，於是乃以魏其侯為丞相，武安侯為太尉。籍福賀魏其侯，因弔曰：「君侯資性喜善疾惡，方今善人譽君侯，故至丞相；然君侯且疾惡，惡人眾，亦且毀君侯。君侯能兼容，則幸久；不能，今以毀去矣。」魏其不聽。

[somethingfunny]

I didn't spend as much time on this as I should have done this week.  It was a bit more straightforward, but these different titles are still getting in the way a bit.  I've translated the first half of what Xuan has posted above and have a few questions if anyone is interested.

 

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When Lord Tao was removed from the office of Prime Minister, Empress Dowager Dao spoke repeatedly (in favour of) Lord Dou (for the position).  Emperor Jing said, “Wifey, is it that you take me to miserly so am not willing to appoint Lord Dou?  Weiji is interested in more earthly pleasures and is given to acting rashly.  It is difficult for him to bear (the responsibility of) the weight of Prime Minister.”  As such, the Emperor did not employ Lord Dou as Prime Minister, but instead chose Lord Wei Wan of Jian Ling.

 

Lord Tian Fen of Wu’An, the stepbrother (same mother) of Empress Jing, was born in Zhangling.  After Lord Dou had already taken up the position of general, and was flourishing, Lord Fen was still a minister, and not yet of high rank.  He waited on Weiji and served him alcohol, kneeling before him as if one of his descendants.  In the later years of Emperor Jing’s life, Lord Fen rose in rank and fortune and acted as 太中大夫.  Lord Fen was skilled in debate and was articulate, he studied all the books of “Pan Yu”, and was deemed virtuous by Empress Jing (alternatively, Queen Dowager Wang).  When Emperor Jing died, on that day the crown prince took the throne with Queen Dowager Wang acting as his representative used Lord Tian Fen and his retainers’ strategy of pressure and appeasement.  Lord Fen, and his brother Tian Sheng, both as a result of being brothers of his wife, in the last three years of Emperor Jing’s life, were made Lord of Wu’An and Lord of Zhou Yang, respectively.

 

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Questions:

 

1.     We seem to have gone from 魏其侯窦婴 (Lord Dou Ying or Weiji) to 窦婴 (Dou Ying) to 魏其侯 (Lord of Weiji) to 魏其 (Weiji?).  I’m assuming that thus far, we are talking about the same person.  It seems a little risky to refer to people by their title only, seeing as the title can pass on to someone else.

2.     Any suggestions for what we should call the 郎 position?

3.     孝景后 is the wife of Emperor Jing, so: Empress Jing.  And she is the same person as 王太后 (Queen Dowager Wang), which she is referred to because her own surname is 王 and she is the mother of 栗太子 (or Li Rong).  Do I have this right?

4.     太中大夫 Don’t know what this is.

 

[Xuan]

This is the second half of this week's passage

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Lord Wu An had just recently received his lordship, but wanted to gain (greater) power and become a minister, so he treated his retainers humbly, and recommended  many men of renown who had no official post, and raised them up; this was to push aside Weiji and other commanders and ministers.  In the first year of Jianyuan, Chief Minister Wan stepped down due to illness, and the emperor discussed appointing a new chief minister and 太尉(minister in charge of military affairs?).  

 

Ji Fu said to Lord Wei An, “Weiji has been distinguished for a long time, and the men of the realm are loyal to him.  But you, commander, have recently arisen (in status); you do not reach Weiji’s level.  If the emperor offers to make you chief minister, you must give it over decline in favor of Weiji.  if he becomes chief minister, you will certainly become chief of military affairs.  Chief minister and chief of military affairs are both equally prominent positions, and (this way), you will gain good repute for yielding to a worthy man.”

 

Lord Wu An secretly spoke to the dowager who intimated the idea to the emperor, and indeed Lord Weiji was appointed chief minister, and Lord Wu An chief of the military.  Ji Fu gave his congratulations to Lord Weiji, but then bemoaned, “My lord, you love the good and detest the wicked by nature.  Just now, the good men praise you, and so you have risen to chief minister.  However, you despise wicked men, and the wicked are many, and they will speak slander against you, my lord.  If you can suffer the good and the wicked alike, my lord, your present good fortunes will endure long.  If you cannot, those slanders will bring you down presently.”

Weiji heard but would not heed.

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My questions.

 

1.  In the sentence 武安侯新欲用事為相, the 新 is confusing to me.  What does it modify?  I followed the translation of a reference book, which reads 「武安侯剛剛受封」(沈祥願《古代漢語：輔導及習題集》), which has 新 modifying 受封, which is implied. But that does not seem right to me.  It looks like 新 modifies 欲... but that doesn't make sense to me either.  "He newly wants to take power"...?   Sounds odd.

[Xuan]

Quote

1.     We seem to have gone from 魏其侯窦婴 (Lord Dou Ying or Weiji) to 窦婴 (Dou Ying) to 魏其侯 (Lord of Weiji) to 魏其 (Weiji?).  I’m assuming that thus far, we are talking about the same person.  It seems a little risky to refer to people by their title only, seeing as the title can pass on to someone else.

I think your assumption is right.... or at least it is the same assumption I have.

 

Quote

3.     孝景后 is the wife of Emperor Jing, so: Empress Jing.  And she is the same person as 王太后 (Queen Dowager Wang), which she is referred to because her own surname is 王 and she is the mother of 栗太子 (or Li Rong).  Do I have this right?

I think that is right.

 

大夫 and 郎 are "senior official" and "minister" respectively, according to mdbg.net, but it seems to have many such archaic imperial posts with similar translations. 惑哉!

 

[Xuan]

The passage for next week:

 

魏其、武安俱好儒術，推轂趙綰為御史大夫，王臧為郎中令。迎魯申公，欲設明堂，令列侯就國，除關，以禮為服制，以興太平。舉適諸竇宗室毋節行者，除其屬籍。時諸外家為列侯，列侯多尚公主，皆不欲就國，以故毀日至竇太后。太后好黃老之言，而魏其、武安、趙綰、王臧等務隆推儒術，貶道家言，是以竇太后滋不說魏其等。及建元二年，御史大夫趙綰請無奏事東宮。竇太后大怒，乃罷逐趙綰、王臧等，而免丞相、太尉，以柏至侯許昌為丞相，武彊侯莊青翟為御史大夫。魏其、武安由此以侯家居。

 

武安侯雖不任職，以王太后故，親幸，數言事多效，天下吏士趨勢利者，皆去魏其歸武安，武安日益橫。建元六年，竇太后崩，丞相昌、御史大夫青翟坐喪事不辦，免。以武安侯蚡為丞相，以大司農韓安國為御史大夫。天下士郡諸侯愈益附武安。

 

武安者，貌侵，生貴甚。又以為諸侯王多長，上初即位，富於春秋，蚡以肺腑為京師相，非痛折節以禮詘之，天下不肅。當是時，丞相入奏事，坐語移日，所言皆聽。薦人或起家至二千石，權移主上。上乃曰：「君除吏已盡未？吾亦欲除吏。」嘗請考工地益宅，上怒曰：「君何不遂取武庫！」是後乃退。嘗召客飲，坐其兄蓋侯南鄉，自坐東鄉，以為漢相尊，不可以兄故私橈。武安由此滋驕，治宅甲諸第。田園極膏腴，而市買郡縣器物相屬於道。前堂羅鐘鼓，立曲旃；後房婦女以百數。諸侯奉金玉狗馬玩好，不可勝數。

[somethingfunny]

Translation of the first two paragraphs:

 

Wei Ji and Wu An both enjoyed the teachings of Confucius, and they recommended Zhao Wan for the position of Deputy Prime Minister, and Wang Cang for a ministerial position.  Lu Shen Gong was brought in to construct a ceremonial hall, the dukes were dispatched to their fiefdoms without any checks, and according to custom arrange the official dress (code) – all in order to promote Taiping.  Members of the Dou family without proper formal practice were all purged (removed from the official family tree).  At this time, the family member’s of the emperor’s wife (Empress Dowager Dou) who were serving as Dukes were mostly married to Princesses, and did not want to return to their fiefdoms.  As a result, they repeatedly slandered Empress Dowager Dou.

 

Empress Dowager Dou was fond of the words of Huang Di and Lao Zi.  However, Wei Ji, Wu An, Zhao Wan, Wang Cang and others promoted Confucianism, while disparaging the teachings of Daoists.  This made Empress Dowager Dou even more displeased.  In the second year of Jianyuan, Deputy Prime Minister Zhao Wan requested that no official business be submitted to the Eastern Palace (the palace of the Crown Prince – essentially cutting Empress Dowager Dou out of the loop).  Empress Dowager Dou was furious and dismissed Zhao Wan, Wang Cang and the others and abolished the positions of Chief Minister and Minister for Military Affairs, and then appointed Lord Xu Chang of Bo Zhi as Chief Minister and Lord Zhuang Qing Di of Wu Jiang as Deputy Prime Minister.  Wei Ji and Wu An, as a result of this, became normal Dukes.  Although Wu An never took up (another?) official position, because of Queen Dowager Wang (i.e. Empress Dowager Dou) and her good favour, he spoke on many issues, and made many contributions, and all of those officials of the land who possessed power and influence left Wei Ji and went to Wu An.  Wu An became more and more arrogant.

 

In the sixth year of Jianyuan, Empress Dowager Dou passed away.  Chief Minister Chang and Deputy Prime Minister Qing Di did not arrange a good funeral ceremony and as a result were dismissed.  Lord Fen of Wu An was appointed as Chief Minister and the Agriculture Minister An Guo was appointed as Deputy Prime Minister.  All of the knights and gentry of the land more closely attached themselves to Lord Wu An.

 

Some Questions:

 

1.     At the start of this section is a line listing the building of a hall, the dispatching of dukes and arranging of a dress code.  It reads to me like Wei Ji and Wu An brought in Lu Shen Gong to do all of these things.  Another possible reading could be that they themselves brought in Lu Shen Gong and then did all of the other things themselves.

2.     When it says 兴太平, what is 太平?

3.     毋节行者 How would you say this in English?

4.     After listing Wei Ji, Wu An, Zhao Wan, and Wang Cang, there is a 务隆.  Any ideas what this means?

5.     After Empress Dowager Dou gets angry, she appears to abolish the position of Chief Minister 免丞相 (I assume this is what is means as she has already dismissed Zhao Wan from the position), however, she then appoints someone else to the position.  So what is really happening when she 罢逐 the person and then 免 the position.

6.     Are 许昌 and 庄青翟 the names of people?  I guess so, but they have no references, so I guess they are of little importance ultimately.

7.     So, Empress Dowager Dou dismisses Wu An for his Confucian ways, but then seems to still enjoy good favour with her and so still exerts power and influence.  Is this right?

[somethingfunny]

On 28/04/2018 at 12:29 PM, Xuan said:

In the sentence 武安侯新欲用事為相, the 新 is confusing to me.  What does it modify?

 

I am similarly confused.  Sorry I can't help with this one.

[Xuan]

Wu An was a man of uncomely visage, but was born into (a family of) great status.  He reckoned that the lords and kings were older than he, and when the emperor first took the throne, he still had many seasons ahead of him.  Thus, since he (Wu An) became 京師相（a minister in the capital?) through his status as a relative (肺腑), he thought that if he did not cow the many lords and force them to treat him with respect, the realm would not fear him.
 

At the time, he came to the emperor to make his report, and sat and spoke for a long time.  Everything he said was listened to.  Of  the people he recommended for official positions, some would be raised from no position at all (idling at their homes) to a stipend of two thousand shi 石.  This would shift great power into Lord Minister Wu An’s hands.  The emperor said (with displeasure), “Have you at last finished making all our official appointments?  I’ll have you know I would like to appoint a few as well!”
 

Lord Minister Wu An once asked for the land of 考工(official in charge of weapons manufacture), and the emperor had angrily said, “(So little?!) Why no just take my amoury?!”  After that, Wu An abandoned his request.  
 

Once he had invited some guests to feast with him, and seated his elder brother, Lord Gai facing south (the inferior position), while seating himself facing east (the superior position), thinking that as a minister to the Han throne, he was superior, and that he should not condescend to his level just because he was his elder brother.  
 

In this way, Wu An became increasingly arrogant.  He built a house greater than all other mansions; his fields were very fertile; and the people purchasing things from different counties on his behalf filled the streets.  In his main hall, he arrayed bells and drums, and erected a flag/banner (with a curved handle?).  The women in his rear quarters of his house numbered in the hundreds.  The gold and jewels, dogs and horses, and things of amusement gifted him by the many lords of the realm were innumerable.

[Xuan]

On 2018/5/5 at 4:24 PM, somethingfunny said:

On 2018/4/28 at 7:29 PM, Xuan said:

In the sentence 武安侯新欲用事為相, the 新 is confusing to me.  What does it modify?

 

I am similarly confused.  Sorry I can't help with this one.

Let me try to answer this one.  After some reflection, it seems that 新 is indeed modifying 欲 in the sense of "newly desiring to...".  It is said in the context of his just being made lord of Wu An, but he is not satisfied.  His new ambition is to wield power.  Perhaps that is the best way to understand it.

 

On 2018/5/5 at 4:20 PM, somethingfunny said:

1.     At the start of this section is a line listing the building of a hall, the dispatching of dukes and arranging of a dress code.  It reads to me like Wei Ji and Wu An brought in Lu Shen Gong to do all of these things.  Another possible reading could be that they themselves brought in Lu Shen Gong and then did all of the other things themselves.

I think you're right.  The ambiguity of classical chinese allows for both potential readings.

 

On 2018/5/5 at 4:20 PM, somethingfunny said:

2.     When it says 兴太平, what is 太平?

My reference book translates this section as "想用這樣一些辦法把國家整理得太太平平的"

 

On 2018/5/5 at 4:20 PM, somethingfunny said:

3.     毋节行者 How would you say this in English?

I understood 節行 to be 節操品行, integrity and good moral conduct.  So "those of unbecoming conduct..."

 

On 2018/5/5 at 4:20 PM, somethingfunny said:

4.     After listing Wei Ji, Wu An, Zhao Wan, and Wang Cang, there is a 务隆.  Any ideas what this means?

I stumbled at this point too.  務隆 is likely a misreading.  務 probably functions as an adverb meaning "try hard to, 力圖, make efforts to, or 務めて(if you know Japanese)", which modifies 隆推 the verb.  隆推 is probably actually two verbs, with 隆 (prosperous), which is usually an adjective being used causatively to mean "to make prosperous" or "to promote" "to promulgate" or something like that.

 

On 2018/5/5 at 4:20 PM, somethingfunny said:

5.     After Empress Dowager Dou gets angry, she appears to abolish the position of Chief Minister 免丞相 (I assume this is what is means as she has already dismissed Zhao Wan from the position), however, she then appoints someone else to the position.  So what is really happening when she 罢逐 the person and then 免 the position.

I don't think she abolishes any positions.  罷 and 免 are probably synonymous, meaning "to fire, to dismiss, to expel".  She dismisses and drives out the people who are currently occupying the offices in question and replaces them with others.

 

On 2018/5/5 at 4:20 PM, somethingfunny said:

6.     Are 许昌 and 庄青翟 the names of people?  I guess so, but they have no references, so I guess they are of little importance ultimately.

Yes, I think they're names.  But they seem to be minor characters in the narrative.

 

On 2018/5/5 at 4:20 PM, somethingfunny said:

7.     So, Empress Dowager Dou dismisses Wu An for his Confucian ways, but then seems to still enjoy good favour with her and so still exerts power and influence.  Is this right?

I think so.  Weiji and Wu An are expelled from their official posts, but because Wu An is a relative of the empress, he is still favoured by her and called upon to discuss political matters.  Unlike Weiji, who is ignored.

[somethingfunny]

Here's the next bit:

 

魏其失竇太后，益疏不用，無勢，諸客稍稍自引而怠傲，唯灌將軍獨不失故。魏其日默默不得志，而獨厚遇灌將軍。

 

灌將軍夫者，潁陰人也。夫父張孟，嘗為潁陰侯嬰舍人，得幸，因進之至二千石，故蒙灌氏姓為灌孟。吳楚反時，潁陰侯灌何為將軍，屬太尉，請灌孟為校尉。夫以千人與父俱。灌孟年老，潁陰侯彊請之，郁郁不得意，故戰常陷堅，遂死吳軍中。軍法，父子俱從軍，有死事，得與喪歸。灌夫不肯隨喪歸，奮曰：「願取吳王若將軍頭，以報父之仇。」於是灌夫被甲持戟，募軍中壯士所善願從者數十人。及出壁門，莫敢前。獨二人及從奴十數騎馳入吳軍，至吳將麾下，所殺傷數十人。不得前，復馳還，走入漢壁，皆亡其奴，獨與一騎歸。夫身中大創十餘，適有萬金良藥，故得無死。夫創少瘳，又復請將軍曰：「吾益知吳壁中曲折，請復往。」將軍壯義之，恐亡夫，乃言太尉，太尉乃固止之。吳已破，灌夫以此名聞天下。潁陰侯言之上，上以夫為中郎將。數月，坐法去。後家居長安，長安中諸公莫弗稱之。孝景時，至代相。孝景崩，今上初即位，以為淮陽天下交，勁兵處，故徙夫為淮陽太守。建元元年，入為太仆。二年，夫與長樂衛尉竇甫飲，輕重不得，夫醉，搏甫。甫，竇太后昆弟也。上恐太后誅夫，徙為燕相。數歲，坐法去官，家居長安。

 

灌夫為人剛直使酒，不好面諛。貴戚諸有勢在己之右，不欲加禮，必陵之；諸士在己之左，愈貧賤，尤益敬，與鈞。稠人廣眾，薦寵下輩。士亦以此多之。夫不喜文學，好任俠，已然諾。諸所與交通，無非豪桀大猾。家累數千萬，食客日數十百人。陂池田園，宗族賓客為權利，橫於潁川。潁川兒乃歌之曰：「潁水清，灌氏寧；潁水濁，灌氏族。」灌夫家居雖富，然失勢，卿相侍中賓客益衰。及魏其侯失勢，亦欲倚灌夫引繩批根生平慕之後棄之者。灌夫亦倚魏其而通列侯宗室為名高。兩人相為引重，其游如父子然。相得驩甚，無厭，恨相知晚也。灌夫有服，過丞相。丞相從容曰：「吾欲與仲孺過魏其侯，會仲孺有服。」灌夫曰：「將軍乃肯幸臨況魏其侯，夫安敢以服為解！請語魏其侯帳具，將軍旦日蚤臨。」武安許諾。灌夫具語魏其侯如所謂武安侯。魏其與其夫人益市牛酒，夜灑埽，早帳具至旦。平明，令門下候伺。至日中，丞相不來。魏其謂灌夫曰：「丞相豈忘之哉？」灌夫不懌，曰：「夫以服請，宜往。」乃駕，自往迎丞相。丞相特前戲許灌夫，殊無意往。及夫至門，丞相尚臥。於是夫入見，曰：「將軍昨日幸許過魏其，魏其夫妻治具，自旦至今，未敢嘗食。」武安鄂謝曰：「吾昨日醉，忽忘與仲孺言。」乃駕往，又徐行，灌夫愈益怒。及飲酒酣，夫起舞屬丞相，丞相不起，夫從坐上語侵之。魏其乃扶灌夫去，謝丞相。丞相卒飲至夜，極驩而去。

 

I can take the first line and the second paragraph.

 

[somethingfunny]

I've edited the section for this week so that it matches the formatting in 王力.  I've also added an extra bit on the end so that we've both gout roughly the same amount to go through (around 500 characters each).  Hope this is OK.

[somethingfunny]

In this bit we're introduced to the Guan family.  One member is a general who remains loyal to Wei Ji, despite being distanced after the death of the Empress Dowager.

 

I'd just like to get the names and relationships correct as it is a little complicated:

1. 灌将军，灌将军夫者，灌夫 General Guan, Guan Fu - The one that is loyal to Wei Ji.
2. 张孟，灌孟 Guan Meng - The father of General Guan.  He took the name Guan after serving in the house of Lord Ying of Ying Yin.
3. 颖阴侯婴，灌婴 Lord Ying of Ying Yin, Guan Ying.
4. 颖阴侯灌何 Lord Guan He of Ying Yin, Guan He - The son of Lord Ying of Ying Yin/Guan Ying. (Also an officer for Zhou Ya Fu who we have already met.)

It's complicated because there are two father-son relationships, all with the same surname, but one of the relationships has only adopted that name after the father served for father in the other relationship.  At least, I hope that is what is happening.

 

One grammar question:

 

In the line: 灌將軍夫者，潁陰人也 we have a typical topic-comment construction  (A者，B也) so that we know that 灌將軍夫 is a 潁陰人.  My question is about the 灌將軍夫 bit - is this a normal way of writing this type of military title?  Surname - rank - forename?

[somethingfunny]

I still have a little bit to do, which I'll post either tomorrow or on Sunday, but here is most of what I have so far:

 

After the loss of Empress Dowager Dou, Wei Ji became increasingly distant and less frequently employed, resulting in little power.  All of the courtiers gradually (自 of their own accord?) distanced themselves and treated him with disdain and arrogance.  Only General Guan alone retained his original manner.  On a daily basis, Wei Ji was silent in manner, without any will, and was only considered with importance by General Guan.

 

General Guan Fu/Guan Ying (灌婴) was from Ying Yin.  His father was Zhang Meng, who had already served in the house of Lord Ying (颖阴侯婴/灌婴) of Ying Yin (颖阴), where he received favour and as a result attained a position worth two thousand shi.  He then (dishonestly?) adopted the Guan family name and called himself Guan Meng.

 

At the time of the Wu-Chu rebellion, Lord Guan He of Ying Yin (General Guan’s son) was general under the minister for military affairs (Zhou Ya Fu).  He recommended (requested?) Guan Meng to become a military officer, and Guan Fu, along with a thousand soldiers, joined up with his father.  Guan Meng was advanced in years so Lord Yin Ying had to strongly recommend him (the implication being that Zhou Ya Fu didn’t want to employ someone so old).  Guan Meng was despondent and every time he went into battle he rushed into the enemy position and as a result he was killed in battle (as part of the Wu army).  According to the rules of the military: If a father and son join the military together, and one of them dies, the remaining person can escort the funeral procession home.  (However,) Guan Fu did not want to escort the funeral procession home and with resolve said: “I wish to remove the head of the King of Wu or one of the military generals, and use this to avenge my father’s death.” As such, Guan Fu donned armour and continued with the battle, enlisting ten brave men from the army who were willing to fight alongside him.

 

When they set off from the military camp, none of them dared to advance any further.  There were only two men who, along with ten or so house slaves, advanced on horseback into the Wu army.  They advanced up to the banner of the senior general and killed ten or so men.  They could not advance any further so they turned around and went to the Han military camp where all of the slaves were killed, and only one (Guan Fu) returned on horseback.  Guan Fu had sustained multiple wounds, but fortunately he possessed a very precious medicine (??) which meant that he did not die.  When his wounds had begun to heal, he again requested from the general: “I now have an even greater (and detailed) knowledge of the Wu military camp, please allow me to return.”  The general thought him brave and noble, but was afraid that he would be killed, so he spoke to the minister for military affairs (Zhou Ya Fu).  The minister refused the request.  When the Wu army was defeated, the name of Guan Fu became known across the land because of what had happened here.

 

And some questions:

 

1.     灌将军夫者 I asked about this naming convention in the post above.

2.     莫敢前 Should I take this 前 as a verb or a preposition.  In other words, should it be that none dared to go at the front, or none dared to advance.  I know it must be the latter, from the following sentence, but is there anyway of knowing without this context?

3.     獨二人及從奴十數騎馳入吳軍 “Only two people with the slaves…” Is it ten people altogether? Or 2+10 slaves = 12 people?  Who are these two people?  We’re told later that only one Guan Fu returns, so who is this other person that bravely goes into battle with him? (As well as the slaves, who presumably would be killed for not following orders if they didn’t.)

4.     走入漢壁，皆亡其奴 Wang Li says to note the grammatical use of 皆.  Is there something special happening here?  I’d prefer if it was 其奴皆亡, but I’m assuming it still basically just means “all”.

 

Edit, Sunday 13th May:

 

Here is the rest from my part.

 

Lord Ying Yin spoke of these events to the emperor, and then emperor made Guan Fu a military officer.  After a few months, because of a crime, he had to leave (the post).  After this, he settled his family in Chang’An, where there were none amongst the influential officials who did not speak favourably of him.  At the time of Emperor Jing, he was made Prime Minister of the state of Dai.  When Emperor Jing passed away, Emperor Wu Di ascended the throne and took Huai Yang to be a pivotal transport location and so posted considerable forces there.  As a result, Guan Fu was made governor of Huai Yang and in the first year of Jian Yuan, he was admitted as a Grand Servant.  In the second year of Jian Yuan, Guan Fu and the commander of the guards Dou Fu were drinking and the relative levels (of position) were not respected.  Guan Fu was intoxicated and fought with Dou Fu – who was the brother of Empress Dowager Dou.  The Emperor feared that the Empress Dowager would ask for his death as punishment, so he made him Prime Minister of Yan.  After some years, he lost his position as a result of a crime, and lived in Chang’An as a regular citizen (as in not holding any official position).

 

And a few questions/comments:

 

1.     徒 This seems to be used as some kind of stative verb.  As in, to 徒某个人 is to ‘walk (move)’ them to somewhere else.  Am I right?

2.     There are a couple of office titles in here that I’m not sure about, and I’ll need to spend some time looking into, but one that really confused me was 长乐卫尉.

3.     轻重不得 There seems to be some subtle implication here, about the respective positions and appropriate manners not being achieved – which is what lead to the fight.

4.     I enjoyed the difference between 坐法去 and 坐法去官.

 

[Xuan]

Quote

1.     灌将军夫者 I asked about this naming convention in the post above.

Yeah, I've noticed that as well, but I am not sure what to make of it.  I suppose it is normal.

On 2018/5/11 at 4:38 PM, somethingfunny said:

2.  莫敢前

I think one could arrive at that conclusion based on the grammar of the sentence alone.  敢 (like 能) usually takes another verb, so 前 must function as a verb also.

On 2018/5/11 at 4:38 PM, somethingfunny said:

3.     獨二人及從奴十數騎馳入吳軍 “Only two people with the slaves…”

I think it is Guan Fu plus two men of some rank or status-- perhaps officials or minor lords-- and the ten slaves they brought along with them, making it 13 people charging heedlessly into the Wu camp.  It does not say who they are, so I think we're to assume they are just other participants in the proceedings.

 

On 2018/5/11 at 4:38 PM, somethingfunny said:

4.     走入漢壁，皆亡其奴

I just read a note about this use of 皆, and now I can't remember where.  Maybe Pulleyblank.  Typically it serves to modify the plural subject, but at times it is used to describe the predicate.  It's not very common, but it apparently it appears in various texts.

[Xuan]

Guan Fu was an upright and outspoken man.  He (habitually) drank and became unruly, and he disliked to fawn and flatter.  To those of rank whose influence/authority/status were superior to his own, he did not want to be courteous/deferential, but always belittled them.  To those who were socially inferior to him, the poorer and lower they were, the more he treated them with respect and dealt with them as equals.  When he was in front of many people, he would commend and favour his inferiors.  Men praised him for this.  Fu was not fond of book learning, but liked to play the hero, and kept his promises.  Of those with whom he spent his time, there was none wasn’t tyrannical and deceptive

 

His family wealth reached the thousands or hundreds of thousands, and daily had tens or hundreds of dinner guests. In order to monopolize the hills, ponds, and fields, his family and retainers struggled for power and were dominant around the Ying river. Children around the Ying river had a song, “If the Ying is clean, the Guan is then serene, If the Ying is dirty, the Guan will end your family.”

Guan Fu sat at home without an official post.  Even though he was rich, he had lost his authority.  Fewer and fewer of his people held positions as ministers and attendees. Lord Weiji, when he lost his authority, wanted to rely on Guanfu to help him castigate those who had previously fawned on him but had now abandoned him.  Guan Fu relied on Weiji to have contact with the greater lords of the realm and improve his renown.  The two men supported each other, and their relations were like father and son. They had an affinity for one another and were very happy, never tiring of each other, and only regretted coming to know one another so late.