Getting fined in Beijing

[grawrt]

Hey guys! Not sure if anyone would find this interesting or not but I figured I’d do a write up on my process of getting fined in Beijing. Warning--- it’s long. I included pictures under attachment of some of the papers and stuff. 

 

I got my passport renewed here in Beijing at the end of March, and went to renew my residency permit a few weeks ago when I was told that I had to pay a fine and only then could I get my permit renewed. The lady sent me to an office in Haidian district, about an hour and a half from the visa place. Once I got there the guy started to tell me that I was essentially getting fined 100 rmb a day since the day of getting my passport for overstaying my visa. I said I didn’t understand because my visa was still valid until the end of May. He said it was Invalid. I was like but if I leave china and come back I could still come back with this visa. He started to reprimand me about the law, and how I didn’t understand the law. He started to show me the paper that my embassy included in the envelope I got from picking up my passport and hes like “look it says it right here” and im like “not it doesn’t. It just says to bring the envelope with me when I renew my visa which I did” unsatisfied, he picked up this form entirely written in Chinese that contains the ‘law’. I briefly looked at what he underlined but it basically said to register with the police within 10 days of arriving to China. I told him that I hadn’t left Beijing at all, and I did that when I first arrived in Beijing. He asked me when I first arrived and I told him in February (my passport was renewed in the end of March in Beijing). He kept on with how I should understand the countries laws and I made a conscious decision to try and cry myself out of the situation hahahaha.

 

Im sorry but sometimes you’re left with no other choice. I violently cried, and so passionately used my worst Chinese to blubber about how I didn’t understand what was going on and I didn’t understand the law that was written in 100% Chinese and how im getting fined when no one informed of this law, not even my school or my embassy and how I was a student and didn’t have money and wouldn’t know how to get back. Unfortunately the guy was obstinate, but so was I. He told me it would take several hours and I could leave first if I wanted to since it wouldn’t get done and oh ‘don’t cry don’t cry’. Please don’t cry please.  I sniffled stubbornly and sat there bawling “how can I leave when im getting charged every day? I just wanna pay my fine but I cant pay it I don’t understand anything”. He was really uncomfortable and it didn’t occur to him until sometime after that the visa lady sent me to the wrong district. After he explained it to me (more happily than ever, that he no longer had to deal with my hysterics, ) that I had to go to the Chaoyang office.

 

I took off the next day of class and just went to the office. Something happened and my map only registered the bus as the only option to get there. It took me about 2 hours to get there, and then another 30 minutes to find the place because like the other office, the area in Chaoyang is literally in the middle of nowhere. I couldn’t find the exact address on my map, and there was no one outside to ask until I managed to spot an ayi up the block who pointed me in the right direction.

 

When I got to the office at long last, I met with a young officer who basically explained to me that I should just go abroad and come back to avoid the fine because it would be cancelled as soon as I went abroad. But I can’t take off too many days from class and I was thinking that the cost of buying a ticket would be pretty much the same so I was like its okay I’ll just pay the fine.

 

Just as a note, if an officer politely hints that you should go abroad to avoid the fine and return, TAKE IT. I regret this decision more than anything else because what follows is the longest most mundane process you can imagine.

 

I met with the boss, who told me that it was too late today for her to process me (as a note, it was only 11 AM), and told me I needed to make an appointment for tomorrow and that I should have all these documents photocopied for tomorrow. I told her it was only 11 and surely they could get it done today as I already had all my documents photocopied from the place I went to the day before. No can’t be done. She asks me what proof I have that I’m a student?  I had my student ID card with me and I showed her that. She told me it wasn’t enough. That I needed a signed and stamped letter from my school saying that I’m a student there. At that time I was letting my school know about the situation and chatting with the international students office advisor through wechat, so I told her I could call him right now and he could confirm that I was a student at that school. No. Not good enough. My advisor told me he could fax a copy right now. No. She said she was fully booked and ushered me out.

 

Just for the record: This office literally has no one inside. There are more empty desks and idle employees than I could count. Pretty sure I was getting ushered out because it was getting close to nap time and it was Friday.

 

Okay… next day I just take a didi to get there, and arrive an hour early just to be safe. No one is there like always. After waiting for my appointment I was lead inside a room and started to go through a form with one of the employees when all of a sudden many different people with problems walked in. The officer dealing with me started to deal with everyone else that walked in which lead me to believe that this ‘appointment’ was nonsense. Also, it taught me that I should have come with someone Chinese. All of these people had Chinese people pushing to get their processing finished with except for me, which might have been why I was pushed off to the side.

 

It’s okay though, at that point I had enough time to myself to snap a picture of the form I had to fill out lol.

 

The form has some pretty general stuff that’s typical of forms of this nature like name, age, etc. But then the form took a really strange turn. I had areas to fill in that kind of baffled me like height, hair color, hair length…. And then to ‘top’ and ‘bottom’ referring to my clothing. Uhhhh okay. Surprisingly weight was not asked.

 

Then the form got even more detailed, there was a huge section that basically asked me to write out my life history. I had to include every year of what I did after graduating HS. After that another section asked to detail my family members. Name, age, occupation, address of workplace…. >__> actually there was also an area that asked for their ID number (证件号码) but I just ignored that part.

 

After I completed the form I was asked to wait outside. They called me back in to tell me to say my family members Chinese names. I was like um… they don’t have Chinese names. Despite this answer, the girl in charge had to somehow think of a Chinese name for my family members, so they sat there writing names that sounded close enough to their names (actually sounded nothing like it) lol. That was kind of funny, the girl was even laughing about it because it sounded really horrible.

More people walked in with their own visa problems and I was told to wait outside. At this point I’m quite used to this habit so I just took my book out and continued reading where I left off. The cute guard chats with me about what I’m reading and what it’s about, then I’m called inside again. She tells me to copy down the same words on every single photo copy that was made (something like 15 photocopies), “I verify that these photocopies are somethingsomething(I forgot now but I wrote it so many times my letters became blurred). And sign my name and date. After this I was handed some red ink and told to finger print every single page.

I was asked to wait some more, then brought to another office with a webcam trained at my face. They started to ask me questions in Chinese before the other officer in the room reminded the officer questioning me that my form read that my mother tongue was English so I had to be read my questions in English to avoid some sort of legal problems. So we restart and the lady asks me basic questions.

When did you find out you were getting fined?

2 days ago.

Why did you wait until now to come?

I was waiting to process my visa when I was told about the fine, then sent to haidian to pay the fine. I spent hours in haidian only to be told I should have gone to the Chaoyang office. Yesterday I came to this office to pay my fine at 11 and was told it was too late and to come back the next day which is today.

Do you know why you’re getting fined?

No.

The lady tries to explain the reason to me then asks, do you understand?

No.

Did anyone tell you that you had to get your visa done in 10 days.

No.

When does your visa expire?

May 21

 

Then other questions like why didn’t you get it done in 10 days etc. etc.

Honestly at this point I’m thinking to myself it doesn’t really matter at the end of the day. They’ve already made it more than clear they’re finining me. It kind of just seems like a procedure or show. But whatever. I’m given more forms to sign and fingerprint, not much time to read over them, I have no idea what I signed.

After I finish, they tell me I’m going to get fined roughly 2000 RMB. I’m like okay can I just pay my fine now?

No. We’ll contact you in a few days then you’ll come back to pay. I heard the girls talking, they basically have to get everything I said transcribed and translated into Chinese.

 

Almost two weeks passed before I was contacted again (to be more specific 12 days). I was called in the afternoon a little after 2 to get there before 4 but there was no way I would make it in time because its quite far (1 hour by didi, 1.5 hours by subway.. and 63 minutes biking lol) and I wasn’t sure how long the process would take so I just asked to come the next day instead. I got there in the morning and was immediately told to go to the bank and bring this slip to pay my fine. Okay. I asked where the nearest bank was because we were in the middle of nowhere. The lady told me to look myself. And I’m like there’s no banks near here (because remember, I walked around lost for 30 minutes so I’m more than a little familiar of the vicinity). She got all huffy and was all SIGH THERE ARE SOME NEAR JIANGTAI STATION.

I had just spent over an hour in the taxi so im like … that’s so far!!!!! And she’s like ITS NOT THAT FAR. Actually… by car it’s not that far, maybe 15 minutes away.. maybe 20 but its not walkable distance. I thought it would be weird to tell the cab driver “take me to any bank” so I just decided to get on a bike and bike around until I found a bank. I got lucky and spotted Beijing bank some 15 minutes away and went to get my fine paid. It was actually really fast service, I recommend going there if you need something quick, but I confirmed with the lady first if I could pay my fine there since I wasn’t sure. After I biked back, sweaty and hot and just so done with the day the lady asked me “what about the copies?” ……

I must have made an ‘im about to lose my shit’ kind of face because the nicer lady working there quickly interrupted with an “ILL DO IT”.

I signed the paper and added my finger print to more papers, they gave me another paper to sign and then I was done.

Almost.

I was told that I had to bring all of these papers with me (the payment receipt, and the slip of paper about the fine) along with my application papers. I was also told that if I don’t get it done within 10 days that I’ll get fined again so.. yeah.

 

Im done now. Feeling 2k poorer and less willing to take didi or eat out to save $$$  

 

 

Just for the record:

Renewing your passport in Beijing doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get fined if you don’t get your visa transferred to the new passport within 10 days (like my case). After I got news about getting fined, and informing my schools international office (who also, never heard of this rule), he sent out word to all students that if they renewed their passport in Beijing to come to see him. I saw them all and they were all basically ‘okay’ and without the penalty because their old passports did not have holes punched in them or snips. The people from Yemen, Myanmar, Laos all had their old passports intact which is not usually the case (at least in the US). We always have our old passports returned to us with holes, but the visas in them can still be used.

My guess is that I’m getting fined because of the holes. ??? But after this entire process I’m still really not sure why that’s the case. I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m getting fined because im a 外国人 and 外国人有钱. I’m no longer annoyed at the situation and kind of over it but this experience has really given me a taste of the political process in China. It’s basically ‘it is what it is because we say it is’, super drawn out and extra. I don’t really get why the visa place couldn’t just give me the fine right then and there since it’s a law in concern with their office, or rather, that I couldn’t just be given the fine and told to pay and come back. It also really surprised me that for a law that is specifically only for non-chinese, that it’s not written in any other language. Even the forms I had to fill out were all in Chinese.

[roddy]

Excellent story, many thanks. Had a good chuckle at the idea of you going from floods of tears to a cheery "Oh, ok, thanks" when you were told you were in the wrong district. 

[lakesandrivers]

Reminded me of what I had to deal with growing up, when a country was going through teething pains. Reminded me how first world's efficiency, even when its bureaucracy could be a sore in the butt, would be sorely missed when one encountered such fiasco. At least you could utilize hydro power, (presumably) because you are a woman and it is culturally acceptable. Imagine me a grown-ass Chinese-Australian male crying. They would likely call the police on moi.

 

破财消灾 At least it worked out for 'ya. 钱嘛，不就是身外之物，看开点。

[Jim]

I always think the runaround is the main part of the punishment, they'd probably happily fine you CNY10 so long as they could send you to the locked basement of an abandoned office in Badaling only to be told you needed to bring it in triplicate and to go to Zhengzhou tomorrow instead.

[Tomsima]

I'm really, really sorry for this; I had exactly the same experience, I was told I was being fined over 10,000 (there was literally NOTHING I could do about getting to the department to register either, I wasn't physically in possession of a renewed passport). I live in a small city, and I have done my visas with the same woman for the last few years. So, yeah, she looked at me and said with a pointy finger 'just don't do it again!'

 

end of story. 

[vellocet]

Wow, looking at the story they did everything they could to dissuade you from going through with it.  You could have just taken a train to Mongolia or something.  It's not that far from Beijing.

[DavyJonesLocker]

I got fined before too when I lost my passport and couldn't register . Further got detained, finger printed etc for overstaying my visa despite me reporting my lost passport immediately.

 

I asked them for suggestions as to how   I could actually fly out of the country without a passport. However I got blank looks.

 

Logic often doesn't prevail in China at times. 

[LiMo]

I've had a similar experience, although we were lucky enough to not be fined and the process was much quicker; we weren't renewing our passports or anything just registering at the local PSB. It's annoying when people on their end get it wrong but you're still held responsible for their mistake.

 

This kind of thing is surely a sort of left over from China's totalitarian communist past, where the political ideology mandated full employment, thus leading to all sorts of pointless busy work and redundancy. That being said, I suppose China is still quite authoritarian and it's useful to have so much dirt on people just in case you ever bad mouth Winnie the Pooh. I was quite perturbed when I had to fill out forms about my parents' jobs and even provide their phone numbers. 

 

Now it's one thing to be like this at the police station. But why is it that bank forms have to be filled out with the utmost conformity to the sacred rules of the central bureaucracy (Hermes Conrad would be proud), down to the point where you must use the bank's pens or risk having to start all over again (yes, this really happened).

[Zbigniew]

1 hour ago, LiMo said:

I suppose China is still quite authoritarian

Compared with what it was like in the mid 80's, when I was a student, and notably in the period of this century before Xi Jinping came to power, it's hard to see it as anything other than a lot more authoritarian. The current economic prosperity has come at a heavy price. It didn't need to have done.

[ChTTay]

Police station housing registration seems to be getting a bit easier. I’m renewing my residence permit now and they don’t need my temporary residence permit as it’s all online. You can check your own status technically (if you know the site- I don’t!). Last time I went to the police station register after coming back into China, they told me I was already registered in the system so no worries. No temporary residence permit (white slip) needed. 

 

I’m still not sure why I was still registered if I’d left the country. Maybe they’ve switched it to being tied to your housing contract or residence permit itself. This would make sense. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

22 minutes ago, ChTTay said:

Police station housing registration seems to be getting a bit easier. I’m renewing my residence permit now and they don’t need my temporary residence permit as it’s all online. You can check your own status technically (if you know the site- I don’t!). Last time I went to the police station register after coming back into China, they told me I was already registered in the system so no worries. No temporary residence permit (white slip) needed. 

 

I’m still not sure why I was still registered if I’d left the country. Maybe they’ve switched it to being tied to your housing contract or residence permit itself. This would make sense. 

 

 

Thanks CcTTay, what do you mean by the temporary residence permit. i assume you don't mean the usual 住宿登记表(accommodation registration form), i.e. the white slip with blue 1970's dot matrix printer ink 

[ChTTay]

Yes, the temporary residence permit you get from the police station when you register living at your apartment. The white paper. 

 

I’ve not needed one when I went to register (above story) and it’s not been needed during my current work residence permit renewal process. 

 

“Registration form of temporary residence” if you want the full English name!  Permit, form, whatever! 

[DavyJonesLocker]

thanks, I thought i was missing something with the "temporary" part. I'm looking at mine at the moment and it just says "Accomodation Registration Form".

 

I renewed mine last Tuesday and had to hand in my Housing contract, Passport, old accomodation form and Workers permit card. The following day I had to go to 人力资源和社会保障局 to renew my Foreign Workers Permit card (外国人工作 许可证) and needed to hand it that Accomodation registeration form, so I think it might be useful to have a physcial copy. Maybe if i was registered on line, there would ne no need though. dunno

[Jim]

I needed to be on the system when I did my residence permit late last year, think they would have been fine without the physical copy if i had showed up on the database OK but a forgotten hotel stay had stuffed things up and i had to renew anyway. No penalty for being technically unregistered for some weeks, mind.

[DavyJonesLocker]

Actually i just noticed that on the back of form its says that the max fine is 2000yuan "not going through the formalities"  for any sort of visa change, change of address etc . Probably explains the OPs large fine.

 

As I said i registered last Tuesday and had moved last October, but no fine. I did this several times now, shouldn't push my luck! 

[ChTTay]

2 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

thanks, I thought i was missing something with the "temporary" part. I'm looking at mine at the moment and it just says "Accomodation Registration Form".

 

Maybe you are missing something. Mine have always looked like this.

 

I've registered a months late once due to a mix up and I didn't get a fine. The HR person on the phone did get an earful from the police women though. Otherwise, a few days or a couple of weeks and they don't usually seem to mind. Hopefully that doesn't change any time soon.

[DavyJonesLocker]

Odd , mine for last 5 years looked like this. You have a work visa right?

[ChTTay]

Weird! Guess different places have different forms! Wouldn’t surprise me

[DavyJonesLocker]

Maybe because it says 访问签证 so shorter stay. Longer stays (>6 months) like 学习 (x1) visa or workers visa allows for a 居留证件.

 

 

[ChTTay]

Nah, the photo I uploaded is just one I’ve found online. I’ve lived and worked here for 7 years. Work residence permit 6 out of 7. 1 year on a long term X.

 

Remains a mystery.