Who Pays in Mature Relationship?

[Steve Macro]

I have been in a wonderful relationship for 6 months that has suddenly become difficult with a financially successful 51 year old successful Chinese born  woman. I am 60 years old and successful as well. We live in Australia, I'm from USA. 

 

We are in love or so I thought. I have gone above and beyond in helping her in her business as she is still expanding. i travel 3 hours return a number of times a week to see her as she doesn't like to drive long, I live in the country. 

 

 I have nothing but respect for her and the challenges she met and won. I happen to have been involved in similar business in my past. 

 

I have paid for everything we do. Weekends away, dinners and other meals out, lots of gifts (jewelry, dresses, I help deal with contractor, auto services, theatre, and more). I should mention that she has not bought me any gifts. This is not about money its about the thought put in to select the right thing she will love (which she says she does). There's been no return effort on her part.

 

We have discussed the notion of marriage but agree that waiting to engage after a year together is the right thing.

 

Last week I said I was feeling an imbalance in our relationship in terms of energy put in and that she could stop bringing her work problems into our together time. I also asked her that if we are going to be serious about marriage we need to talk about prenups as neither of us need the others money so good agreements mean good friends. 

 

Our plans have been to retire in a year or so and travel. Live for extended periods overseas so we can still oversee those running our respective businesses and enjoy 3 or 4 months in China, Italy, France etc etc. 

 

I also said I would feel more comfortable if she were to contribute to our social life. We are both financial so it is more about sharing our relationship than anything else. 

 

This triggered a huge reaction. She broke off our relationship (the day after went ring shopping, not buying) stating that I insulted her and that i didn't love her and that Chinese traditional values say the man pays. 

 

My reply of course was I am not buying a wife we are creating a life. She is a grown woman as I am. We are equals in our independence and each of us need to be free of obligation as that's where true love lays.

 

I understand that if we were young dating and never married before that the man pays could make sense as the woman night not be financially viable enough. But this is different.

 

I've been reading that most young Chinese women do not adhere to these old traditions as they are totally capable of paying their way and in fact resent the Chinese male dominant relationships and they value independence.

 

Looking for feed back.

 

Am I being taken for a ride?

 

[roddy]

4 hours ago, Steve Macro said:

Chinese traditional values say the man pays. 

 

“How interesting, dear. My modern (Australian / American / Canadian ) values say .........  What do you think we should do?”

 

If traditional Chinese values mean an inability to compromise and see your point of view, this is only going to be the first problem. 

[Zbigniew]

Sorry to be blunt, Steve, but if I were you I'd be moving on from this relationship asap before you end up in a marital quagmire it'll be much more costly and messy to extricate yourself from when you need to. I say "when" deliberately.

 

If you feel the urge to speak to her again, speak to us instead.

[Shelley]

6 hours ago, Steve Macro said:

This triggered a huge reaction. She broke off our relationship (the day after went ring shopping, not buying

 

I think this is your answer, if it wasn't about the money I don't think this would have happened. She would have talked about it and you would have come to an amicable decision.

I would definitely let things cool off, it does seem one sided but then we do only have your side of the story.

Even if things didn't change concerning the time, effort and money you put into things, she needs to acknowledge and appreciate these things. Even if it is just to say thank you and try to contribute a bit.

 

Step back, take a metaphorical deep breath and consider yourself lucky it has not gone further down the road to marriage, unhappiness, divorce and so on.

 

 

 

[Flickserve]

7 hours ago, Steve Macro said:

She broke off our relationship

 

Good fortune indeed. 

[lakesandrivers]

8 hours ago, Steve Macro said:

Chinese traditional values say the man pays. 

 

This is not true, modern or ancient regardless. Anyone who believes this falsehood is a victim of warped perceptions, or has an agenda. If a woman loves you enough, she will be more than willing to pay her share of the relationship, be it financially or emotionally, without being asked. This is true at least among Chinese diaspora in Southeast Asia and the bigger cities in Australia. I would bet this is true as well among well-educated independent women in cities on the mainland.

 

Yes, in the beginning the man will pay, regardless if he got asked or he asked, but love implies a relationship that had survived the fragile initial moments. I think we can agree that "love at first sight", taken literally, is a fantasy? 

 

On the other hand, she might actually believed those were her values (tradition is a powder keg). Yet she seemed to assume that you would embrace her interpretation of "Chinese values". How about your beliefs of "Australian values". 

 

[abcdefg]

9 hours ago, Steve Macro said:

Am I being taken for a ride?

 

Maybe not deliberately, but the result is the same. You describe a relationship in which there is too much imbalance for it to be sustainable long-term. Respectfully suggest you back away. 

[Lumbering Ox]

Dated a Chinese girl. I think 3 years older, she won't tell me her age or a lot of things actually.

She held up her half of the sky from day one. I would think that would be a Chinese value for anyone who was a cultural revolution baby like mine was.

At first paid her own way, insisted on it. I remember early on she she was having a hard time of things and I wanted to cover a movie and she resisted hard [good thing]

Towards the end as her finances went down the crapper, I ended up pay for both of us a bit more often but she was never demanding, often preferred the "welfare cinema" over the first showing expensive ones, ate at cheap places, often we ate at her place.Very aware of finances.

Didn't quite make up for her extreme stubbornness and other issues. The stories I could tell. But finances was not a problem.

 

Another girl, married from Hong Kong. Knew her from 25 years ago, she had almost no friends at university but was so shy I never did make the moves on her. Turns out she as interested in me as she was out of my league as a major league hottie who never aged. Dooh. She picked the place, I was fully intending to pay because even if we never dated, I always regretted not having the courage to even have a try for a friendship. I felt bad. She ended up paying, and it was expensive. I tried but I knew I was going to lose that battle and backed off. She was turning 50 back then. Very traditional.

 

So yeah, pay your way especially for the older Chinese woman, I don't think that would be a complete cultural no no.

Also she isn't in China any more

Also, the man pays used to be a western thing and still is for many people, but as time has gone on and woman have achieved equality [after taking into account work type, hours worked, non cash benefits, years worked etc] and she sure has taken advantage of this more and more have realized that the man pays is not fair and sexist. Fairness I would like to think is a valued traditional value for most cultures.

 

Anyone who would react the way she did with her finances, I am not saying she was in it for the money but you don't need a girl that stubborn and that unfair and unreasonable in your life. I am desperate but even I pulled the plug.

[889]

I guess what bothers me here is playing the "We Chinese do (or don't) card." Chinese exceptionalism, and it wears thin quickly.

[Lumbering Ox]

4 hours ago, 889 said:

I guess what bothers me here is playing the "We Chinese do (or don't) card." Chinese exceptionalism, and it wears thin quickly. 

 

Are you suggesting there is no such thing as cultural differences and tendencies?

Seriously?

I am sure there are times and places where the guy plays regardless pretty much universally and probably places where doing dutch is the norm and places where it is a mix.

The bigger issue is that 1: She isn't exactly correct, 2: She is absolutely unwilling to bend when she is dating a person from a different culture and in a different country.

 

[889]

That's quite a reach. I think you know perfectly well what I meant.

[Lu]

I can fully believe that she is used to the man in the relationship paying, and there is that expectation among many Chinese people, both male and female. But that doesn't mean her way is the only way, or the right way for her relationship with you. Clearly the two of you have different expectations financially and need to talk and compromise to resolve this. If she doesn't want to talk or compromise, the relationship is effectively over. This is really unfortunate and I feel bad for you, but better to find out before you marry. So it's good that you brought it up as part of the marriage talk.

 

Good luck, I hope you feel better soon.

 

For what it's worth, I would not want to be in a relationship where one partner pays everything. It would make me really uncomfortable. But you're not dating me, so that's not very relevant.

[ChTTay]

The fact that she broke everything off in one day and after one conversation suggests it's never going to work.

 

If she won't talk to you about it then you'll never resolve it. If her reaction to your opinion is this over the top then you'd never be able to resolve the big issues that married couples all face at some point.

 

It's hard to hear but I'd forget it. It's not a Chinese thing, it's this women's thing. 

[abcdefg]

So, it's really more than just a matter of who pays. Has to do with sharing and communication. 

[Icesharpey]

I think the minute one (foreigner) goes down the road of accepting everything from his Chinese partner, ie, being overly sensitive to Chinese customs and just, well...ending up being a cash cow totally, this is where it ends.

 

I talk from experience. It's important to value your identity also, your culture - not just the Chinese culture. If you just keep paying, and one day feel it's time for her to p(l)ay her part, it's already too late. She will not accept it, as you got her too used to it. Did you not act out of insecurity with your age, and so you were overly generous?

 

Of course (sorry), she did not love you. No "51-year-old successful woman" would behave in this manner, Chinese or not.

[Lumbering Ox]

On 6/1/2018 at 7:05 AM, Icesharpey said:

Of course (sorry), she did not love you. No "51-year-old successful woman" would behave in this manner, Chinese or not.

If he really wanted to respect Chinese culture he never would have dated her anyway.

51 is way way on the wrong side of 27.

If she is going to play the culture card, it is only fair to do so yourself.

[abcdefg]

It seems the Original Poster disappeared. Why do people do that? Was he hoping for other answers and other advice? It's unlikely he just lost interest in the subject. 

[Lu]

Sometimes, asking the question is enough to make one find (or realise) the answer. That goes for grammar questions, but sometimes also for this type. That, or he just really wanted to get it off his chest.

[ChTTay]

Lots of people, on forums and the internet, take but don’t give. 

[roddy]

What,  none of you got the flowers and chocolates? Guess my advice was just better...