I can't find the standard IPA transcription of the Pinyin sounds.

[colcode]

I've recently asked a similar question on this forum about the standard pronunciation of Pinyin sounds because I found that different Pinyin chart resources pronounce certain syllables differently. One user suggested that I should use the IPA transcription of the Pinyin sound. So I searched online and found the same problem, different resources have different IPA transcription of the same Pinyin syllable.

 

for example pinyin "Yi" is transcribed in one resource as [ i ] and as [ ji ] in another. Another example is "üe" can either be [ yɛ ] or as [ ɥɛ ].

 

I'm trying to learn standard pronunciation, the problem is that there is a lot of resources of Chinese pronunciation IPA but they don't agree on all of the sounds, so I can't decide how to pronounce a pinyin syllable.

 

So my question is, which one of these IPA transcription is the correct one? if both are correct which one should I use? where can I find a standard IPA transcription of Pinyin sound?

 

Thank you.

 

[陳德聰]

Next thing you’re going to want to know whether “wu” is [ u ] or [wu].

 

We’ve actually had this discussion on the forums before and it’s not an issue with IPA but with what is a relatively flexible “standard”.

 

See this thread:

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/1199-how-is-wu-pronounced/

 

And this one:

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/29155-pronouncing-yi-yin-ying/

 

And then again here:

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/44182-無印-muji

 

 

[Wendy_Ting]

 

Language is to communicate. I think it's good enough as long as your pronunciation is "relatively standard” that people can understand. :p  Even we Chinese have different standard pronunciations. Only national radio and television announcers have very standard pronunciation I think.

 

But if you want to learn the very perfect pronunciation，I recommend that you can buy the textbook for "The National Putonghua Proficiency Test" for native Chinese people. Like the pics show:

 

  

We have to pass the test if we want to be an announcer, teacher or others which need you be qualified in Putonghua.  The textbook with the audio gives you the standard pronunciation for initials, finals and lots of other syllables. It has many essays which are read in standard way by national announcers as well. You can take a try if interested.

 

[roddy]

22 hours ago, colcode said:

 

I'm trying to learn standard pronunciation, the problem is that there is a lot of resources of Chinese pronunciation IPA but they don't agree on all of the sounds, so I can't decide how to pronounce a pinyin syllable.

Getting as accurate as you can early on is wise, but it's possible to take it too far. Any reasonably authoritative source will be fine - it could be the audio for your textbook, 普通話水平測試 materials as suggested above (probably the best option if this is really important to you), a well-trained native speaker. Might there be tiny variations? Yes. But if you can get to the point where those variations are the biggest issue in your pronunciation, you're already doing better than 95% of learners.

 

Time spent choosing and cross-referencing between a number of sources, all of which are perfectly valid, is - well, maybe not wasted. But there'd be better uses of your time.  Pick one, get learning. 

[Hofmann]

I haven't seen a narrow transcription either. PSC materials will probably be most anal about this, but I don't know if they even  have IPA transcription. The /ɥ/ vs /y/ thing is just a matter of transcription conventions. Newer materials favor approximants (/j/, /ɥ/, /w/) over vowels in these places.

 

Also, individual authors may transcribe Mandarin differently because many adults (which most linguists are) have difficulty accurately and precisely perceiving and reproducing speech sounds.

 

So, if you want to learn Standard Mandarin, the most straightforward approach is to listen to it directly.

[NinjaTurtle]

I have heard that Peking is now called Beijing, partly because the initial sound of the two words is somewhere between a P and a B. Is this true?

[陳德聰]

1 minute ago, NinjaTurtle said:

Is this true?

The short answer is no.

[NinjaTurtle]

OK. I guess that's just one of those 'old wives tales' that are floating around.

[imron]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Beijing#Peking

[Luxi]

On 7/1/2018 at 10:48 AM, colcode said:

I'm trying to learn standard pronunciation

 

22 hours ago, Hofmann said:

to learn Standard Mandarin, the most straightforward approach is to listen to it directly.

 

Precisely!  

Repeatedly listen and pronounce  these 60 readings, while reading the transcripts, until you sound just like the readers.

国家级普通话水平测试朗读作品60篇（有字幕)   

The recordings and text are from the National Putonghua Proficiency Test that @Wendy_Ting mentions above.

This will give you not only the sound, but sounds,  tones and intonation in context. Trying to learn pronunciation from a conventional approximate transcription designed primarily for English speakers, is a waste of time. It's only a rough guidance, that's why nobody worries too much about 100% consistency, once you got a vague idea, go and find the sound!

[roddy]

I doubt it's actually something either of you would actually recommend, but I'm wary of giving learners the impression they can find a recording and copy it and they'll be fine, for the very simple reason that there are probably phonemes in there they've never ever heard. The brain's as likely to mishear those as a known phoneme as it is to identify it as a new one. It's no doubt possible with extreme diligence, but...

 

This might not apply to the OP, who sounds as if he's learned the odd language or seven before.

[colcode]

Thank you for all your answers.

 

To answer @Hofmann , I agree that the best way to learn Mandarin Chinese pronunciation is through listening and repeating. However, the problem is that different resources pronounce some syllables differently, so, I can't decide how to pronounce them.

 

The only problem I'm facing is with pinyin i,u, and ü and their glide version of /j/ /w/ and /ɥ/.

 

I've read all the replies and the linked posts, what I gather is that there is no standard way to pronounce some syllables. so for example, some people pronounce "i" as[ i ]  , [ ji ] or somewhere in between. Other people pronounce "i" both with a glottal stop [?i] or with a glide [ji] all depending on the position of "i" in the word.

 

Some consider all of these variations as part of the standard pronunciation, while others will consider one pronunciation as more standard than the other.

 

I now have a better understanding, I still have no definitive answer to my question.

 

When a final starts with i/u/ü, when do you pronounce the it as [ i ]/[ y ]/[ ɥ ]  (with a glottal stop) and when do you pronounce it as the glide [ j ]/[ w ]/[ ɥ ] (with a glide) ?

 

In other words:

 

"i"=> [?i] or [ji]

"ia"=>[?ia] or [ja]

"u"=>[?u] or [wu]

"ua"=>[?ua] or [wua]

etc.

 

[陳德聰]

/i/ manifests in only a few basic ways:

 

1a. before a vowel (eg. /-ia/);

1b. before anything else (eg. /-in/, /-ing/, /i/); and

1c. after another vowel (eg. /ai/).

 

Only 1a and 1b seem to be applicable to your question, and there are three basic “rules” you can presume working here:

 

2a. change /i/ to a glide in cases that fit 1a;

2b. add a glottal stop before any vowels that start their syllable; and

2c. (optionally) add a glide/change ? to a glide where 2b. would apply if there is a preceeding syllable.

 

The interaction of 2b and 2c is one place where the variation is less clear cut because in theory 2c only becomes more pronounced in rapid speech, otherwise 2b is still fine. With those you would get (transcription is loose cause I’m lazy so ignore everything except the placement of i/j/?):

 

應該 /ing gai/ > ?ing gai

餅乾 /bing gan/ > bing gan

定義 /ding i/ > ding ?i or ding ji

電影 /dian ing/ > djen ?ing or djen jing

答應 /da ing/ > da ?ing or da jing

漂亮 /piao liang/ > pjau ljang (but there is no real difference between this and “piao liang”)

也 /ie/ > je

 

I cannot imagine a syllable “?ia” because it would just become “ja” per 2a.

[Publius]

Too tired to type. Just read this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese_phonology especially the following sections: 6.0 Syllables, 1.3 Zero onset, 2.0 Glides, 4.0 Vowels, 4.1 Allophones

[Hofmann]

You can be sure that PSC materials in @Luxi 's link are in Standard Mandarin. Last time I checked, there was a dude and a chick. If you can hear phonological differences between them, you're confidently within the standard.