On thread moderation...

[DavyJonesLocker]

@Flickserve

Look I do appreciate that mods do this job for free and post a lot of useful information . Anyway I've made my point know as whatever they wish to do about it is up to them. As I say they can disagre with my views should they wish 

 

I am not bothered actually by it. It's a forum. I am on others and have one of the highest reputational counts of member so perhaps the style here doesn't match my directness or personality.

 

@roddy

 

That doesn't mean you are 100% in the right though. I have seen you take  a hypocritical approach several times when you  something you personally don't like. You jump down their throats, make a condesending post and lock the thread . 

 

In any case shall we agree to disagree, rather than engage in an argument which ends with I'll feeling all round? I think you probably find internet arguments as tedious as I do.

 

I'll not bring up the moderation topic again.

 

[imron]

6 minutes ago, roddy said:

You can't just cycle into town and expect the local hotel to start accommodating foreigners. 

Maybe not the best analogy as the foreigner in that case kicked up a fuss and got what she wanted in the end

[roddy]

6 minutes ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I have seen you take  a hypocritical approach several times when you  something you personally don't like. You jump down their throats, make a condesending post and lock the thread . 

A partial hands up here. I'm not sure I'd close something because I personally don't like it - links welcome - but more likely because it isn't content that's valuable to the community. But I've obviously played a huge role in defining the community, so there's going to be overlap there. 

 

But do I sometimes read my comments back and think 'oh, that sounds condescending / bitchy / petty?' Unfortunately yes. That's partly why we got new mods in, and why I do less of the day to day moderation round these parts nowadays. That said, it's pretty rare for a topic to even be closed and there's a very good chance an earlier request has been ignored, so... well, I can't comment on specific cases unless you want to dig 'em out and ask. Which generally I think the mod team would be happy to do. 

18 minutes ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I am not bothered actually by it

You clearly are. Which is fair enough, people get invested in communities. I wouldn't necessarily WANT to run a site people weren't bothered about somehow. 

[imron]

19 minutes ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I have seen you take  a hypocritical approach several times when you  something you personally don't like. 

For the record, I've seen Roddy leave far more stuff up that he doesn't like, rather than the other way round.

 

And for those people paying attention, this is now the 'complained about by both sides' mentioned above. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

well tell you what chaps

 

I will endeavour to do my best to ensure that what i write does not cause offence to anyone. ? I'd still encourage people to perhaps be a little more open minded to what I or someone else writes. there is not necessarily an ill or offensive intent behind it. Its simply a different opinion even if is expressed in a way that is perceived too blunt for some. 

 

 

 

[XiaoXi]

7 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

No-no, as far as I can recall someone said a black person can't change their skin color to become white (or words to that effect)

Actually it was me that said it, I said a black person won't become white just staying indoors which is of course true. MJ had vitiligo which is obviously a bit different but it's just a joke and I didn't see your post needed to be deleted.

7 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

By the way I am die hard MJ fan and possibly only person on Chinese forums to have actually seen him live in concert in his prime. 1988. Unbelievable fantastic!

I'm a huge fan too.

 

6 hours ago, imron said:

Public internet forums are like public toilets, some are nice, clean and well maintained, others are dirty and smell like piss and shit, and there's a range of everything in between.  We aim more towards the nice, clean and well maintained side of the spectrum, and I think many or even most of our members appreciate it.

If the stuff you're removing is dodgy spam and the like then fine, but regular stuff that's not extreme I think should be left. The best 'referees' let the game flow, as they say. When someone has their post deleted I don't think it's a great feeling.

 

2 hours ago, roddy said:

A partial hands up here. I'm not sure I'd close something because I personally don't like it - links welcome - but more likely because it isn't content that's valuable to the community.

I think closing the thread to get the last word should be a big no no for a moderator.

 

4 hours ago, Lu said:

Funny that you are the only one I'm aware of who is regularly complaining about this.

He's not the only one. I don't post very often but I have noticed it's a bit overly strict.

 

Having said this I think the mods are good at being open to criticism. They're not the kind to shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[Shelley]

I sometimes think that some of the problems of posts appearing rude or offensive is the fact that all communication is typed and is there for all to read and re-read, if this had come up in conversation the remark might have got some funny looks or  groans but we would have moved on, the remark forgotten and the evening turning out fine. 

The way I talk and the way I type are different, when you are engaged a lively debate face to face you can tell when some one is being sarcastic, rude or just plain silly. Its so much harder to gauge what mood the writer is in. It happened to me and the person I mistook for being serious, admitted that sarcasm just doesn't come across in writing.

 

I have been here for nearly 10 years (oh wow just realised 10 years) because of the way the forum is run. I started on some others but soon left because of the way it was run or rather not run. 

I think on the whole the forum is as well balanced as can be expected considering the diverse people and topics. 

 

 

 

[roddy]

44 minutes ago, XiaoXi said:

I think closing the thread to get the last word should be a big no no for a moderator.

That's not WHY we close them. It's just a massive bonus. 

 

Edit: incidentally, it might be worth clarifying how moderation tends to work. We rarely delete posts from regular members. When we do it'll usually be because there's been a run of off-topic posts in an otherwise useful discussion. These *do* derail discussions, and there's no barrier to the off-topic posters starting their own discussion elsewhere, so (usually after a mod request or two) these get deleted or if easy to do and worthwhile, split into their own topic. 

 

More rare again is a post deletion because someone's been rude or offensive. On its own that might get deleted, or it might get a moderator request to not do that, perhaps a formal warning, potentially (if its obviously deliberately offensive, new poster) a ban. But it's quite likely the post gets left in place, along with our response, because we do actually want people to see what's going on - if we're maybe going to want to ban you in six months, it's helpful for us if everyone sees what an arse you've been.

 

More likely is the 'rude' poster and someone else get into a dull back and forth spat that nobody is interested in and which brings us back to... off-topic posting. I suspect we delete more posts for being utterly uninteresting to anyone other than the poster and his debate buddy that anything else, and frankly that nonsense can be taken to email. 

 

I honestly believe the moderation on this site is aimed at maintaining quality. It's not about massaging mod's egos (do feel free to do that though) or enforcing political correctness or engaging in censorship or whatever. It's about keeping posts focused on the core topics enough that random passersby think "hey, this looks interesting" and not "Hey, why did they start talking about dachshunds" and then sign up and contribute themselves. Etc.

[anonymoose]

I don't regularly view other forums, so it's difficult to compare, but I like this forum for the generally well thought out and well written posts. Certainly not having spam or too many off-topic posts is welcome.

 

I do feel, however, that there is a tendency to be very politically correct here. I'm not sure if that's a moderation issue, or just a result of the type of people this forum attracts. For example, I'm always surprised at the usually uniformly helpful or consolatory responses to the recent spate of posts from people concerned about previous criminal records affecting their chances of getting a Chinese visa. Am I the only one who's thinking, you obviously didn't give a shit endangering other people's lives driving under the influence (or whatever the offence was), so it sucks to be you, but sorry, you only have yourself to blame?

[david387]

You wouldn't like my forum.

Arguing with a mod gets you a warning, then a ban. Moderators are volunteers, and they just have better ways to spend their time, such as focusing on language learning.

[Shelley]

@anonymoose I understand what you mean, and yes I often think well that is what happens you are young and reckless. Having been young once though I wonder if people deserve a second chance? One DUI when you were a teenager should not penalise you now that you are now older and wiser. 5 or 6 or more serious crimes well you have no one to blame but your self and you need to live with it.

 

On a completely different note I am not sure why your post has loads of blank space to your signature.

[Shelley]

Who is David387?

 

This name is listed in my notifications as having commented on this topic, can't see it any where.

 

P.S. Big space is gone now.

[david387]

I have been a lurking member for a while but seems they are auto moderating my posts. 

[imron]

Posts made by members with less than 5 approved posts go to the moderation queue and need to be approved.  Once you've got 5 approved posts this limitation goes away.

 

Incidentally, your two recent posts in this thread tip you over that limit.

[Shelley]

Ah, I understand, interesting that I was notified of your post before it appeared.

 

Take a jump to the left.......do the time warp ya. 

 

Sorry just being silly.

[david387]

I see. So now this post is instant.

我发布信心，你一下子看起来呢？

[陳德聰]

Hm. Does it help at all that I feel I have "learned a lesson" here in moderation etiquette?

 

Both in terms of a "warning" to stay on topic or to at least include some sort of content if you're going to make jokes that don't add to the discussion as opposed to simply removing posts right away, as well as in terms of using the "hide" button instead of the "delete" button, which allows other mods to see the post in-line with the rest of the thread along with the reason. It seems animosity grows when people feel mods are being sneaky on top of removing posts in a way they don't agree with, which obviously is not the end goal.

 

When it comes to free speech, I am a perhaps a little bit blasé, but I recognise that if someone has gone through a lot of effort to write a post and it suddenly disappears, this can be quite upsetting. I think I try my best to avoid that kind of moderation already, and from what I can tell, that's not exceptional.

[XiaoXi]

15 hours ago, roddy said:

That's not WHY we close them. It's just a massive bonus. 

I thought closing a thread was supposed to be because it had got out of hand and no more good could come from it, not a pathetic attempt to win an argument by making the last post and then preventing anyone else from responding. Normally if the moderator closes the thread on his last post he would just post something like closing the thread and the reason for it.

 

15 hours ago, roddy said:

Edit: incidentally, it might be worth clarifying how moderation tends to work.

Yes I really don't think that's how moderation is supposed to work.

[imron]

On 9/29/2018 at 12:28 PM, XiaoXi said:

I thought closing a thread was supposed to be because it had got out of hand and no more good could come from it, not a pathetic attempt to win an argument by making the last post and then preventing anyone else from responding.

Threads aren't closed becase admins want to win an argument.  Case in point, this very thread. You can chalk the 'massive bonus' comment up to roddy's sense of humour, or lack of it if you didn't laugh (I laughed). 

 

On 9/29/2018 at 12:28 PM, XiaoXi said:

Yes I really don't think that's how moderation is supposed to work.

It's an accurate summation of how moderation works on these forums (and has been done like this here for over a decade).

[XiaoXi]

9 hours ago, imron said:

Threads aren't closed becase admins want to win an argument.  Case in point, this very thread. You can chalk the 'massive bonus' comment up to roddy's sense of humour, or lack of it if you didn't laugh (I laughed). 

Ok if it's a joke then no problem. So my original comment that it's a big no no to close a thread just to get the last word and win an argument still stands.

 

One of the mods should certainly lock this thread with a response of "tisn't". Now that would be funny. Well it would have been if I hadn't suggested it already.