British English: "not any longer"

[mungouk]

On 11/8/2018 at 7:54 AM, LiMo said:

You wouldn't presume to tell an Australian that they're English is wrong, no matter how much it may rankle. But what about a Singaporean? What about a Jamaican

 

*their ?

 

I'm totally with you @LiMo... language is organic and belongs to "the people". Creoles and dialects etc are important to peoples' identity, and therefore can't be "wrong".  (Or is that people's?)

 

Then again, we have nations like France insisting on standardising their language, which they see as a way of defending it from "invasion" from foreign loan-words.  Understandable. 

 

When it comes to teaching, I'm sure many learners want to learn "standard" US or British English — hence TOEFL and IELTS. Having had a Columbian Spanish teacher once, who confused the hell out of us all with her pronunciation, I can appreciate that.

 

 

[NinjaTurtle]

3 hours ago, mungouk said:

Creoles and dialects etc are important to peoples' identity, and therefore can't be "wrong".

 

I am reminded how, in America high schools, Spanish is taught but it is always Castilian Spanish. Mexican Spanish is not taught, but Mexican Spanish is what is spoken on the streets of America (at least on the West Coast). I believe a student who spoke Mexican Spanish in a high school Spanish class in America would fail the class.

 

By the way, "important to peoples' identity" is a little different than "important to a people's identity".

 

I would also say Singaporean  English ("Singlish") is a creole whereas Australian English is an accent. I do not see "Chinglish" as either a creole or accent. (Does anyone disagree?)

[mungouk]

8 hours ago, NinjaTurtle said:

Australian English is an accent

 

Aussie English has plenty of expressions and vocabulary of its own.... does that make it a dialect?

 

 

[NinjaTurtle]

8 minutes ago, mungouk said:

...does that make it a dialect? 

 

I think the definition of dialect hinges on other criteria. What is your definition of "dialect"?

 

[mungouk]

12 hours ago, NinjaTurtle said:

What is your definition of "dialect"?

 

This one will do for me.  We're maybe hijacking the thread a bit here.

 

EDIT: Oh hang on, you started the thread. Your call ?

 

[XiaoXi]

On 11/10/2018 at 10:55 AM, mungouk said:

Aussie English has plenty of expressions and vocabulary of its own.... does that make it a dialect?

I use different words to my brother, does that mean we speak different dialects? As far as I know Australians don't use different spelling or grammar. Not sure what they pronounce that differently, I think that just comes under accent.

 

In any case, in your wiki link it says "Within a given English-speaking country, there will often be a form of the language considered to be Standard English". I think that's what I was referring to. Regardless of who's teaching an English class in some country, the textbook he uses is gonna be some kind of TOEFL or IELTS oriented book. It's not gonna be "Och aye me laddie English 101" or "Eddie Murphy's Advanced Grammar Book A" or "Matthew McConaughey's South American Unintelligible Drawl Pronunciation Course"  etc. 

 

Dialects are only normally studied if specifically needed. Like you might want to learn the Liverpool accent for a part in a tv show or something.