Dominant Language Partners

[chinoir]

Hello everyone, I've been a lurker for a while and thought I should finally join the discussion. I'm an intermediate learner. I studied Mandarin in college. One year was study abroad. I then moved to China after graduation to teach English for two years. I then went back to the U.S. for a few years and now I'm finally back in China working again. It's been about a decade of Chinese and I'm finally feeling like I'm "getting" it....sorta. Anyway, my employer provides free Chinese language partners for employees. I practice with a language partner twice a week. She's great. We talk about random topics and I'm able to keep up 95% of the time. She speaks at a normal pace so speaking with her has really helped my listening comprehension. The problem is, she often takes over the conversation. She talks way more than I do and it's hard for me to find the right moment to interject. Even when I'm noticeably trying to say something, she just keeps going. And when I finally do say something, she'll start talking before I can complete my thought. I'm now at the point where my listening comprehension is much higher than my speaking ability. When I did Italki last year, I had the same issue. Online language partners would take over the majority of the conversation and it would be hard to interject.

 

I understand that I probably just need to be more assertive. But I also don't want to sound like an ass or disrupt what's usually a very interesting and lively conversation. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that I'm at a level in my Chinese where a native speaker is more than happy to chat with me at a normal speed as if I was a native speaker. But, how am I going to improve my speaking if I don't actually get the chance to speak? Has anyone else dealt with this? How do you ensure you're getting the right amount of listening and speaking practice from a language partner?  

[NinjaTurtle]

Chinoir,

 

You have two choices, either become more assertive or find another partner. (I strongly recommend the second choice.) For what it is worth, I have never had any trouble finding Chinese people who are willing to do a language exchange with me. If you need help finding a language exchange partner, please feel free to ask. I like to hang out at my local Starbucks, especially because English is used more there than any other place I know. Do you have a local Starbucks? If you do, I would think you should have several people there as good candidates -- especially the staff members. Then there are your students. I always have more students who would like to do a language exchange with me than I can handle.

[889]

We can only make a guess, but there are some Chinese who don't particularly enjoy listening to foreigners stabbing away at their language. It's not pleasant to the ear and takes a lot of concentration to understand. So much easier to block it by controlling the conversation.

 

Of course there are also people who by nature insist on controlling the conversation -- won't let you get a word in edgewise -- no matter the language.

 

Whichever your situation, it sounds somewhat hopeless to try to change your partner's attitude. Best to move on.

 

[somethingfunny]

How much do you contribute to similar conversations when they are in English?

[roddy]

4 hours ago, chinoir said:

Anyway, my employer provides free Chinese language partners for employees.

Big boss: Oh, and you've got to find someone to talk Chinese with the new foreigner...

Middle boss: Yes boss! Hey, small boss, find someone to talk Chinese with the new foreigner...

Small boss: Yes boss! Hey, Xiao Zhang, you know how I've been telling you off for talking too much? Well...

 

The chance of a company randomly selecting a good language partner (unless they've actually coughed up for a tutor) is slim. Maybe give her another chance - just outright tell her you find her interesting and enjoy talking, but you need to actually practice speaking, or ask for help with some roleplayed situations where you get to speak. But it sounds like you've got what you can only really call "a talker". 

[NinjaTurtle]

Chinoir,

 

I agree with what other people here are saying. I want to add that I usually have trouble finding a good language exchange partner. There are several factors I consider when choosing one. (Feel free to ask what my factors are.) When I am ready for a new partner, it usually takes me a while to find someone who is a good fit for me. This may be true for you too. I would probably never take someone language exchange partner just because my boss has chosen one for me. As a matter of fact, I would most likely not want want to study with such a person. I think you are in the same boat.

 

As a matter of fact, my college provides free Chinese classes for all of the international teachers. I choose not to go to these classes, because I feel I can make better progress and use time more efficiently if I find my own language exchange partners and run my own one-on-one sessions.

[dtcamero]

personally i think the whole idea of language exchange partners is kinda creepy. 

most of the earnest people are women trying to use their L2 90% of the time.

most of the men are using 'language exchange' as a cover for finding girls.

 

what is the incentive to actually do an earnest 50-50 'language exchange'? it's so impractical, such a waste of time.

anyone who's got good at a language knows that you need hundreds, thousands of hours of practice to become practically useful in a language. this doesn't come from 50% of a 1 or 2 hour coffee-table chat with a stranger twice a week.

you need to get past all that breaking-the-ice getting-to-know-you stuff before you can have any meaningful, useful conversation. and such conversation has to happen for many hours on end, on a nightly basis.

that only happens with a close friend or a romantic partner.

 

if your speaking ability is not there yet, you have little chance of finding an honest friendship because listening to you butcher that person's native language is so jarring and unpleasant. 

a romantic relationship gives the partner (target) an incentive to put up with your awful chinese, and is the only really useful 'language exchange' in my opinion (although it is completely one-sided and only beneficial for you).

 

[snowflake]

5 minutes ago, dtcamero said:

if your speaking ability is not there yet, you have little chance of finding an honest friendship because listening to you butcher that person's native language is so jarring and unpleasant. 

a romantic relationship gives the partner (target) an incentive to put up with your awful chinese, and is the only really useful 'language exchange' in my opinion (although it is completely one-sided and only beneficial for you).

 

Finding an language exchange partner does take time and patience.  I filter candidates by mentioning up-front that I'm older, have a family and spouse, state my goals, and ask for the other person's language learning goals. If something seems too off, then that's the end of that.  On the upside, I have one language exchange partner that I've been talking to since early 2010.  It takes effort though a good exchange partner is extremely valuable. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

17 hours ago, chinoir said:

Hello everyone, I've been a lurker for a while and thought I should finally join the discussion. I'm an intermediate learner. I studied Mandarin in college. One year was study abroad. I then moved to China after graduation to teach English for two years. I then went back to the U.S. for a few years and now I'm finally back in China working again. It's been about a decade of Chinese ...

 

If you are in China, you should have no issues at all finding someone to converse with. I am fully convinced that they most efficient way to practice and improve your speaking properly is to speak with Chinese natives than have zero English . I have tried and failed with language partners a lot of times. I have a similar issues with my partner. Her English is perfect but she keeps speaking half Chinese and have English despite the 10,000 times I have asked her not to. It can be a source of frustration on my part. Her friends are the same. Its not a criticism, just an observation. In the flow of the conversation they drop in English words thinking I would understand (and several times I don't) or just revert to English that than becomes the norm.  

 

I have my own acquaintances / friends  that have zero English. My speaking improved dramatically. Some are more talkative than others naturally. They have no interest in learning English so suits me fine. I actively avoid people who speak Chinese that can speak English and won't make friends with them. It may seem insensitive but I came to China to learn Chinese, not to talk to random people in English I can do that in my home country.

 

[DavyJonesLocker]

10 hours ago, dtcamero said:

most of the men are using 'language exchange' as a cover for finding girls.

 

unfortunately that is true, but each to their own I guess. I think most except the naive girls know whats going on. If two people are happy with the situation, despite the pretence I say crack on 

 

10 hours ago, dtcamero said:

you need to get past all that breaking-the-ice getting-to-know-you stuff before you can have any meaningful, useful conversation. and such conversation has to happen for many hours on end, on a nightly basis.

 

if your speaking ability is not there yet, you have little chance of finding an honest friendship because listening to you butcher that person's native language is so jarring and unpleasant. 

 

Wouldn't quite agree with that though, I have plenty of people now i can go out and have dinner, coffee, wechat conversation with. It doesn't have to be the same person every night of course in you really want a lot of exposure. 

 

In my view the biggest obstacle is not the language, its someones personality. If you have all the personality of a doorstop you are not going to get far no matter how good your language skills are. My ex-colleague was having really trouble meeting someone for friendship even after many years in China. However to be honest he would put you to sleep standing up and just bitches non stop about Chinese people and China. Who wants to hear that? 

 

It does take a big of carpet bombing until you find a few that can contact regularly, especially woman as there will be an initial sense of "another pervy laowai" contacting me. Lots of wechats at the start then you can meet no issues.I have no issues meeting people for coffee, in the park, dinner. I am 45, some are 30, female and pretty good looking but I established the boundaries from day one.  

[roddy]

 I think dtcamero is surprisingly down on the idea. Nobody's suggesting the 1 or 2 two hours a week is all you do, it's just one additional activity among (what should be) many. It's a chance to try out new stuff in a relatively supportive environment. And some romantic relationships or close friendships might be ideal for language learning, but I've seen as many people end up with a very limited range of Chinese, because they simply don't talk about very much with their partner, beyond where to go for dinner and who is most 讨厌。 

 

If you can afford and can find a decent tutor, then definitely do that first. But a good language exchange set up can work well. 

[889]

"what is the incentive to actually do an earnest 50-50 'language exchange'? it's so impractical, such a waste of time.

anyone who's got good at a language knows that you need hundreds, thousands of hours of practice to become practically useful in a language. this doesn't come from 50% of a 1 or 2 hour coffee-table chat with a stranger twice a week."

 

An awful lot of people who study foreign languages -- most in fact -- aren't on the road to becoming "practically useful" in another tongue to the extent they require thousands upon thousands of hours of practice. Most have more limited goals, goals that are often limited by practical concerns such as time, money and location.

 

That is, you study within constraints. And if the best you can manage is a couple of hours a week with a native speaker, grab it. Far better than just sitting at home reading textbooks and listening to tapes.