Italki teachers

[PerpetualChange]

8 minutes ago, Jan Finster said:

As much as I want to support such platforms, this is a crazy commission.

What stops people from just getting the contact details from the teacher and going private via Skype after the first lesson (and pay them by bank transfer)?

 

That's exactly what I did with my Chinese tutor. We agree to meet on Skype instead of Preply's software (which is prone to lag and other issues far moreso than Skype). At the end of the first lesson I offered to pay her directly via paypal, she happily agreed and that was that. I tried to do this with my iTalki tutor and he shut me down right away, I guess some people just prefer the convenience. 

 

This is unfounded, but I have occasionally gotten the impression that tutors on the other end of these applications may be working through another third party in their own countries who takes an additional cut.

[mungouk]

Well, if you're a very busy teacher on italki it's probably pretty useful that it handles all the new lesson requests, auto-schedules them for you, deals with rescheduling/cancel requests and so on.  And they do act as a "store front" after all.

 

But this thread has got me thinking... I'll suggest to my teacher that we take it off italki after my current package is up and I'll pay direct by WeChat.

 

 

[Flickserve]

3 hours ago, PerpetualChange said:

I tried to do this with my iTalki tutor and he shut me down right away, I guess some people just prefer the convenience. 

 

I remember reading the terms and conditions of italki that italki students can't be booked off system for a year. 

 

In practice, this is difficult to monitor. 

[suMMit]

5 hours ago, mungouk said:

But this thread has got me thinking... I'll suggest to my teacher that we take it off italki after my current package is up and I'll pay direct by WeChat.

Personally, I think this is unethical of both teacher and student. Italki is running a legitimate business which has provided both teacher and student a service and deserve their fair share. 

[PerpetualChange]

55 minutes ago, suMMit said:

Personally, I think this is unethical of both teacher and student. Italki is running a legitimate business which has provided both teacher and student a service and deserve their fair share. 

 

And who decides what that fair share is?  These teachers are not employees of these platforms, and are bound by no employment contracts. That teachers would even think that Italki or Preply deserve a permanent share of the value of their labor simply for being the middlemen is dystopian - and thankfully not legally enforceable anywhere I can think of. Remember, even if two people meet on a Platform, continuing on that platform is a totally opt-in, voluntary understanding to continue using a service and nothing more.  If a teacher wants to continue using the platform even with longterm students maybe there a reasons to do that but a guilty conscience should not be one of them and I think we could do an analysis showing just how quickly these platforms get their "fair share" (especially ones like Preply, that take 100% of a student's first lesson fee, knowing full well that many students will never book a 2nd lesson). 

[suMMit]

21 minutes ago, PerpetualChange said:

and are bound by no employment contracts.

Then why this?:

3 hours ago, Flickserve said:

terms and conditions of italki that italki students can't be booked off system for a year. 

 

In practice, this is difficult to monitor. 

 

 

Then why not find a teacher on your own and not use Italki at all? Because you can't. Thus they provide a service and should be able to make money from this service.

 

 

21 minutes ago, PerpetualChange said:

and are bound by no employment contracts.

You know the details of their contracts?

[PerpetualChange]

6 minutes ago, suMMit said:

Then why not find a teacher on your own and not use Italki at all? Because you can't. Thus they provide a service and should be able to make money from this service.

I had tutors before matchmaking services existed. It really wasn't that hard. Anyway, I think you have it backwards, suggesting that those who provide labor must find a good reason to not use a service like italki and preply - even if they have used it before. How about you tell me what is the basis for insisting that two parties should continue using the service that brought them together in perpetuity even when it is no longer convenient for them? Again, "kindness of my heart" gets you nowhere here.  

 

Lets flip this in a way that isn't so draconion and anti-labor. How about italki or preply build incentives that make their users want to stay on the platform and pay the commission fee? From what I can tell, italki are a bit better in this regard, lowering commissions as time goes on, and not starting the relationship by taking 100% of the teacher's first lesson fees. Preply, not at all. 

 

9 minutes ago, suMMit said:

You know the details of their contracts?

Yes, because as far as I know they don't exist. At most there is "terms of service" which only binds you to rules for using the site (with the worst case scenario for non-compliance being banishment from the site). 

 

[suMMit]

3 minutes ago, PerpetualChange said:

even when it is no longer convenient for them?

It's convenient for you to spend less money. 

 

I say its unethical to use their service to find you a teacher and then behind their backs cut a deal so you can save money. Thats pretty much all I have to say on the topic.

[Flickserve]

1 hour ago, suMMit said:

Then why not find a teacher on your own and not use Italki at all? Because you can't. Thus they provide a service and should be able to make money from this service.

I will state what I have done so we don’t have any misconceptions.

 

I still have money in italki. I just haven’t had lessons for a long time because I have switched my methodology in learning for the time being as well as taking a break. 
 

I go back to italki to browse through CVs and interesting personalities. 
 

Why don’t I get another teacher away from italki? No need because I am self studying.
 

Have I had any tuition away from italki with a teacher that I met on italki. yes. I had a trip into China, met the tutor in person for a few hours, did some touring and discussion and real life chinese immersion with the tutor at hand taking notes. The tutor recorded sentences for me afterwards which I drilled. It was a good learning experience but we couldn’t have done it over the internet because of the spontaneous nature of our discussions by environmental stimuli.

 

Have I had any tuition with a italki teacher otherwise away from the platform. No. 
 

I absolutely agree if booking lessons through the website and the convenience that it offers it is fair for the website to take some commission. 
 

If italki contractually bounds its teachers like a full time contract with the pay, then yeah, teachers should not work the same job in another platform or in another school etc. 
 

IMHO, italki is pretty reasonable with fees.
 

From the information previously discussed above, it’s a wonder that preply has any teachers at all!  

[PerpetualChange]

6 hours ago, suMMit said:

It's convenient for you to spend less money. 

Thanks to the way these websites have a nearly unlimited influx of low-priced, wholly unqualified tutors cheapening the labor market, I pay less for tutors than I ever have before. Even with their commissions. Also, after becoming a tutor's private client, I have never asked to "split the commission". I simply pay what I would before, knowing that my teacher is getting the full value of their labor. Even if I asked to split the commission, I would not be in the wrong. 

 

6 hours ago, suMMit said:

I say its unethical to use their service to find you a teacher and then behind their backs cut a deal so you can save money. Thats pretty much all I have to say on the topic.

If you're going to call me unethical, it would just at least be nice of you to provide some basis. Again, "guilty conscience" gets you nowhere. 

 

I use these services insofar as they allow me to find teachers with whom I would like to study on a long term basis. I use this service until it is no longer convenient for myself and my tutor. What services I use, and for how long I use them, is for me and my tutor to decide, not italki, preply, or summit from the forums. If you think this is ethically gray, maybe take it up a gig economy that these websites exploit, which has functioned in such a way as to exploit any sort of conventional legal regulations around labor that exist in most developed countries.

 

 

[mungouk]

9 hours ago, suMMit said:

Personally, I think this is unethical of both teacher and student.

 

I'm not sure if this was directed at me or not (it was quoting my post), but I would say that the thing about ethics is that if you don't know the whole picture, you can't make a judgement.

 

7 hours ago, suMMit said:

use their service to find you a teacher and then behind their backs cut a deal so you can save money

 

I never mentioned anything about saving money. In my case I would like to make sure my teacher gets 100% of the money I'm paying, because I think they could do with the cash.

 

There are other aspects as well which are nobody else's business.

 

I've spent more than USD 5000 on lessons on italki. Shifting the lessons to private after spending that much cash is a little different from trying to move off-platform after 1 or 2 lessons. 

[roddy]

On 5/26/2020 at 3:36 AM, PerpetualChange said:

Then, they hold that money, and only give 67% of it to the tutor when it is confirmed that your lesson has been completed.

You've got that wrong. It's 33% for new teachers, dropping to 18% over time (hours taught). 

[roddy]

On 5/26/2020 at 3:36 AM, PerpetualChange said:

You can not use these hours on a different tutor if you decide you don't like your tutor anymore.

Sorry, but again... completely wrong. I'm staring at a 'transfer credits' button now. And I wouldn't have bought the credits in the first place, if they weren't transferable and refundable. I'd really appreciate it if you checked what you're posting before you post it. None of this information is hard to find.

 

Preply isn't ideal - the 100% commission on first lessons seems exorbitant. But lets criticise them accurately. For what it's worth, I just checked the three tutors I've had lessons with on the platform - the average is over 1,000 hours taught. Presumably it's working for them. 

[PerpetualChange]

Thanks for the clarification @roddy, but even after looking at that I think calling me "completely wrong" is as stretch, I'd prefer "directionally correct". 

 

Again I am not denying that the services are seen as valuable even in the longterm by many teachers and students. I am just pointing out that whether that service is valuable and should continue to be used is for teachers and their students to decide. Not the websites, not guys on forums. 

[Jan Finster]

I had a brief look at Preply and I wonder in what way they differ from Italki? Do they? Has anyone used both platforms to list some pros and cons? I do not mind they ask for commission, of course they do,  just as  Airbnb and  Uber, but it should not become excessive. 18% is quite a lot if you consider that the teachers have to pay 30-45% income tax.

[suMMit]

3 hours ago, mungouk said:

I would like to make sure my teacher gets 100% of the money I'm paying

Why does the teacher deserve 100% of the money? Italki deserves nothing? Really? So why did you use italki to find this teacher?

[suMMit]

2 hours ago, PerpetualChange said:

I'd prefer "directionally correct". 

Whats the word for Snowflake in Chinese?

[PerpetualChange]

16 minutes ago, suMMit said:

Why does the teacher deserve 100% of the money? Italki deserves nothing? Really? So why did you use italki to find this teacher?

 

A teacher deserves whatever a teacher and student agree upon, whether that agreement includes using a service like Preply or iTalki once, half a dozen times, forever, or never is up to the student and teacher.

 

 

[suMMit]

1 minute ago, PerpetualChange said:

A teacher deserves whatever a teacher and student agree upon, whether that agreement includes using a service like Preply or iTalki once, half a dozen times, forever, or never is up to the student and teacher.

Sorry, but NO. You are wrong. Not if you decide to use Italki or a similar service.

[suMMit]

3 hours ago, mungouk said:

/?because I think they could do with the cash.

Are you suggesting Chinese teachers are poor? They need  charity?