It Only Took 3 Years! The Mandarin Blueprint Method is Ready

[imron]

11 hours ago, imron said:

At 80% you can get a vague sense of someone doing something, but almost all the details are missing

For those interested, the spoiler tags below contain the actual text that the 80% Chinese comprehension paragraph was based on (taken from the Amazon preview page of the Mandarin Companion book).

 

 

后来，她听到妈妈和别人说话，才知道真的出事了。她家里很多人都生病了，不到两天就死了很多人。李叶很难过，因为所有人都不理她。她一个人回到房间哭了一会儿，然后睡了很久。她起来的时候，还是没有人来看她。

 

Not having read this story, the main details were completely different from what I thought was happening when reading the 80% version of the text.

[roddy]

I think more conventional marketing claims, such as that studying Chinese in this manner will result in financial and romantic success, might be less controversial. 

[Bobby69]

Quote

We make it extraordinarily clear to people throughout the course that 80% is your foundation and you have a much longer road ahead if you want to approach native fluency.

 

So if at the end of the day if you're teaching "foundation" Mandarin as you've so clearly stated here, why not just call it foundation, instead of some wishy washy "80% of Mandarin" guff. 

 

Foundation Mandarin in as little 3 months is a more reasonable claim and I would not refute that, but hey it doesn't sound as impressive as 80% when it comes to marketing does it?

Basically, you are selling a foundation course, just like many others out there, no matter how well you try to dress it up. You know, if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck...

 

And you still haven't addressed my question about you guys passing HSK 6 in two years with just a few hours of study a week, because this is rather prominent on your website. What exactly were your circumstances and prior experience for completing it in such a short space of time? 

 

Quote

So far only two people have asked for their money back, and so it's fair to say that the people who didn't ask for their money back weren't under the impression that they would be nearly done after the foundation.

 

Your marketing claims are still nonsense.

[DavyJonesLocker]

I think having seen all the discussion here it really boils done to "if you're curious, give it a try and see what happens". Ignore what's written on the tin and don't convince yourself you have found the gold at the end of the rainbow.  Disliking the market claim doesn't equate to the method not being beneficial. 

One could try it for a few months, see how you get on and you will be in a better position to decided if worth continuing.

 

Realistically one method can works well for certain periods of time depending on your Chinese level and your learning style. When you advance it's often beneficial to favour another method. 

 

[ban]

Just stumbled upon this post and would be keen to use the coupon code : MBCHINESEFORUMS can you please help Phil

[Jan Finster]

Has anyone joined their premium courses?

Any more recent feedback?

[杰.克]

The Mandarin Blueprint...

 

... something about the name of this programme really irks me. I think it was perhaps the seeding of me making this post

 

(https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/59660-wow-the-1-tip-to-fluency-in-chinese-that-actually-worked/?tab=comments#comment-464984)

 

Anyone reading this - THERE IS NO MANDARIN BLUEPRINT  that will lead to " guaranteed rapid fluency" *

 

Thats not to say this course, isn't useful, it may very well be. And thats not to say the designers and owners of this course, aren't using the same money making click bait ideas that everyone else is using (I imagine they have put alot of work in and you have to do what everyone else is doing). In fact I watched a few of their videos, and they seems to have pleasant personalities and good mandarin. But just to repeat , this is a marketing gimmick/lie

 

*As their website advertises

[Jan Finster]

26 minutes ago, 杰.克 said:

Anyone reading this - THERE IS NO MANDARIN BLUEPRINT  that will lead to " guaranteed rapid fluency" *

 

Of course there isn´t.

Just like there is no method to run a marathon in under 2:30 within 3 months, if you are starting from scratch and you have no background in athletics.

 

The company made a lot of mistakes ("blueprint" is kind of a trite marketing expression to start with...), but I wonder if there are any aspects of their program that are useful and different from the competition?

[杰.克]

11 minutes ago, Jan Finster said:

but I wonder if there are any aspects of their program that are useful and different from the competition?

 

I certainly imagine there are. Like I said they chaps seem perfectly nice, intelligent, and with good Chinese. But i have zero appetite to wonder about the aspects of their programme, whilst it has such an offensive name.

 

Fundamentally, we shouldn't be misleading the other users on here, that programmes like this are appropriately named.

 

EDIT

 

I just realised this fellow forumer, has already written what I intended (and in a much better manner!). Three cheers for DJL

 

On 3/22/2019 at 3:18 AM, DavyJonesLocker said:

I think having seen all the discussion here it really boils done to "if you're curious, give it a try and see what happens". Ignore what's written on the tin and don't convince yourself you have found the gold at the end of the rainbow.  Disliking the market claim doesn't equate to the method not being beneficial. 

One could try it for a few months, see how you get on and you will be in a better position to decided if worth continuing.

 

Realistically one method can works well for certain periods of time depending on your Chinese level and your learning style. When you advance it's often beneficial to favour another method. 

 

 

[imron]

14 hours ago, 杰.克 said:

whilst it has such an offensive name.

While I have not used the service, I don't see anything offensive about the name.  For a service that provides a structured guide on how to study the name seems quite suitable.  It's not claiming to be the only blueprint, just a blueprint that you can follow.

 

They have other marketing claims that I take issue with, and the guarantee appears to only be if you're not satisfied with the product/service within 30 days, but personally, I think the name itself is quite good.

 

As mentioned in your other thread, I agree that the most important factor in learning Chinese is the student putting in the time and effort.

 

16 hours ago, Jan Finster said:

Has anyone joined their premium courses?

No, but they have a 30 day money back guarantee, so if you're feeling adventurous you could always try it and see what it's like, and then come back and provide feedback

[Jan Finster]

4 hours ago, imron said:

No, but they have a 30 day money back guarantee, so if you're feeling adventurous you could always try it and see what it's like, and then come back and provide feedback

 

This would make me biased. Since I definitely do not want to spend that money at the moment (I am already doing Lingq and Chinesepod ATM), I am almost forced to write a bad review in order to justify bailing out. ?

 

@Phil: If however, they would grant some Chinese-forums.com users free premium access for a year, I would be happy to use their service and make the most of it. I would then write a very thorough and honest review. ?

[BlackMamba]

I haven't used this platform yet but why are they using Anki and not Pleco? Is there an advantage with Anki? I thought Pleco was specifically made for Chinese and should be more superior therefore than Anki which can be a flashcard trainer for everything? I have never used Anki yet.

[Jan Finster]

 

Quote Hi Jan, can we ask you a question? The past week we’ve been emailing you about our Mandarin Blueprint Black Friday Promotion, but you didn’t decide to join the many new community members who jumped in and invested. Why? Was it something we said? Was the price too high? Was it not the right time? Are you trying something else instead? Did you just miss the cut-off? It’s totally cool. I know Mandarin Blueprint might not be for everyone. But it would help us out and enable us to serve you better in the future if you wouldn’t mind replying to this email with the reason you didn’t feel it was right for you. Thank you so much. Luke and Phil   Quote   Jan We quit. We’re through. We're done emailing you about our Black Friday Mandarin Blueprint promotion. In 60 minutes, the price goes up, by A LOT...         ...and it ain't coming back down. So, for the very final time click here to get started NOW. Luke and Phil       Dear Luke & Phil,   Why? Because your bombardment with promotional emails every 1-2 days is borderline abusive and certainly does not encourage anyone to join. There are penis enlargement spam mails that are less intrusive ?   Your Black Friday promotional sale was disproportionally more expensive than other competitors and you have not shown in any way that you are worth it. Your aggressive marketing makes people assume much of the money goes into marketing and little into teaching.    [Just to make things clear: all those emails were promo emails. I have not emailed them once]

[mackie1402]

9 hours ago, Jan Finster said:

Why? Because your bombardment with promotional emails every 1-2 days is borderline abusive and certainly does not encourage anyone to join. There are penis enlargement spam mails that are less intrusive ?

 

I have to completely agree. I was getting sick of the daily emails for the last week. In fact, I unsubscribed yesterday. In fact, I remember seeing an email a while ago which said something along the lines of "If you want to be taken off the mailing list just don't reply to this email and it'll be done automatically, but if you want to keep receiving emails please reply." I never replied yet I still get bombarded with emails. 

 

Does this sales technique actually work? I'm genuinely curious. The way I see it, if I wanted to buy it, I would've bought it. An email about the discount for Black Friday is fine. If I had forgotten about it, a reminder email about the deadline would've been suffice. These emails kind of reminded me of the typical "80% off all furniture, we're going out of business mega sale" adverts you see on TV, with shops that never actually go out of business. 

[Jan Finster]

5 hours ago, mackie1402 said:

Does this sales technique actually work? I'm genuinely curious. The way I see it, if I wanted to buy it, I would've bought it. An email about the discount for Black Friday is fine. If I had forgotten about it, a reminder email about the deadline would've been suffice. These emails kind of reminded me of the typical "80% off all furniture, we're going out of business mega sale" adverts you see on TV, with shops that never actually go out of business. 

 

It kind of works. Nigerian spam emails promising you millions "work". Otherwise it would not be an "industry". Penis enlargement ads "work" [probably not the product but the sales technique]. In fact Nigerian spam emails are intentionally written in such bad English and without much disguise to weed out the smart people from the start. They want the not so educated fools looking for an easy buck.

So, if Mandarin Blueprint is after selling snake oil and playing a numbers game, maybe their marketing strategy is fine. Maybe they are hoping buyers will not ask for their money back within 30 days and before they realize their product is flawed.

 

A question Phil and Luke should be asking themselves: have they ever seen such marketing from reputable law firms, doctors or CEO 500 companies?

 

Here is a Chinese language learning company that follows a completely different path: Mandarin Corner. They provide quality content,  they offer almost everything for free and they do not spam you with promotional ads. Yet people voluntarily donate 10$ or significantly more. They have around 80.000 subscribers on Youtube. Mandarin Blueprint has 3.000....  

[Moshen]

Jan,

Thanks for posting those obnoxious emails! It's interesting to see that a company that launched with misleading, overblown marketing claims has continued to use disreputable tactics to market itself.

Seems like they don't learn from feedback.

Some companies only go by the numbers: if a promotion prompts enough people to respond, they do not care one bit what the others think - not even about the negative word-of-mouth they have inspired in social media, like here. Only the numbers count!

Moshen

[Moshen]

Someone mentioned "affixes," a word I wasn't sure about, and when I looked it up, I landed on a series on Mandarin Blueprint about how Chinese words are constructed that seemed interesting until I got to this:

 

 

From my experience, this seems so wrong !

 

They say here, "Remember, even though “老” can have the meaning of “Old,” when used as a Chinese prefix it does not carry this meaning."

 

When I worked in China, almost everyone in my office older than me (I was in my thirties) went by Lao (Whatever).  No one younger than me did;  they generally went by Xiao (Whatever).  And one older lady went by (Whatever) Lao Taitai, which she translated to me as Old Lady (Whatever) - adding that she hated being called that because she didn't like being reminded that she was old.  A few people were called by their whole name, without a Lao or Xiao, especially if their name was just two syllables.  But I think if I had called someone younger than me Lao (Whatever) they would have taken it either as a joke or some kind of weird mistake on my part.  And this wasn't just within my office.  It was true everywhere I went in China - and I traveled a lot for my work. 

 

The connotations I was familiar with also appear in many Chinese stories I've read.

 

So what in the world are they talking about to say that Lao with someone's name is simply an affectionate nickname and has nothing to do with being old?  I am completely baffled.

 

In addition, calling it a "term of endearment" also seems wrong.  In my office it was more respectful than endearing, and had absolutely nothing to do with how one felt about that person.

 

 

 

[suMMit]

According to Cornelius Kubler :

 

Grammatical and Cultural Notes

 

1A. LĂO and XIĂO Before Monosyllabic Surnames. Lăo is a stative verb meaning “be old” (of people, not things). Unlike English “old,” lăo usually has favorable connotations, indicating wisdom and experience. Xiăo is also a stative verb; it means “be small, little, young.” Lăo and Xiăo followed by a monosyllabic surname are commonly used together in informal, colloquial conversation to address people or to refer to them.

 

The patterns are: LĂO Surname Lăo Lĭ “Old Li” XIĂO Surname Xiăo Gāo “Little Gao”

 

Lăo is used for people who are older than oneself while Xiăo is used for people who are younger than or about the same age as oneself. These terms are especially common in China, where they are used for women as well as men; in other Chinese-speaking areas they are used less often, and usually for men only. It is best for non-native speakers not to use these terms until invited to do so by a Chinese. In this text, we will translate Lăo as “Old” and Xiăo as “Little,” though in English the best translation of Lăo or Xiăo plus surname would often be the given name of the person. Once two people have gotten into the habit of calling each other Lăo... or Xiăo... , that habit usually stays with them, regardless of their getting older as the years pass. So if a twenty-five-year-old man and his twenty-year-old friend refer to each other as Lăo Wáng and Xiăo Zhào , they will probably still refer to each other that way when they are eighty-five and eighty, respectively. Also, note that the same person will typically be called Lăo by some of his or her friends and Xiăo by others, depending on the ages of the people involved and their particular relationships. Here is a list of all the possible combinations, based on the surnames that have appeared so far:

 

Lăo Wáng “Old Wang” Xiăo Wáng “Little Wang” Lăo Zhào “Old Zhao” Xiăo Zhào “Little Zhao” Lăo Kē “Old Ke” Xiăo Kē “Little Ke” Lăo Gāo “Old Gao” Xiăo Gāo “Little Gao” Lăo Hé “Old He” Xiăo Hé “Little He”

 

Lăo and Xiăo are not used with bisyllabic surnames like Duānmù , Ōuyáng , or Sītú . Unlike the monosyllabic surnames, which are not normally said alone, the bisyllabic ones can be called out directly (e.g., Ōuyáng , nĭ dào năr qù a? ), very much like “Smith!” or “Jones!” in English. 

 

Kubler,Cornelius C.. Basic Spoken Chinese (Basic Chinese) (pp. 87-88). Tuttle Publishing. Kindle Edition. 

[alantin]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:17 PM, Moshen said:

From my experience, this seems so wrong that I am not even sure these guys understand Chinese!

 

When used like this, 老 does not describe a persons age but the relative social standing between the people in question and is highly context dependent. It also feels similar to certain Japanese grammar constructions (and even Finnish once), that also have nothing to do with age but social standing, but are more often used for older people and there too you'll sometimes see people complain about feeling old when these are used to address them. There is a clear... "relationship" with age, but the point is not to describe age in any of these cases, hence their description looks about right to me, though a bit simplistic, which usually is the what they try to provide; concise and clear rules of thumb.

To me your comment feels like badmouthing them here behind their backs. Did you send feedback to them about this? In my experience they are very responsive to feedback, questions, criticism etc. When I followed them, they made weekly youtube videos to clarify and discuss questions like this that were raised to them during the previous week. They probably still do.

[suMMit]

On 3/12/2022 at 2:44 PM, alantin said:

When used like this, 老 does not describe a persons age but the relative social standing between the people in question and is highly context dependent.

Are you sure about this? I would say it would always be a younger person addressing someone older by 老X even if it was only by a small age difference and ditto for 小X it would always be an older person addressing a younger person.

 

As an example , in a program I'm watching , the boss calls several of his underlings 老李，老王 etc because they are older in age(not higher in rank), they call him 徐总. If you look at pic A the man he's addressing is clearly older(and has very bad taste in ties).

 

I guess Mandarin Blueprint is trying to make it clear that you are not literally saying "Old Wang" bur that it's a nicety.