What are the first 10 books you read? What are the first 10 you WOULD read now that you know better?

[markhavemann]

It seems like this has been discussed to some extent or another (or perhaps completely and I just couldn't find it) in different parts of the forum. I thought it would be nice for anyone who is at a relatively advanced level to share their journey into reading books, as a sort of road map for anyone trying to break into reading.

 

Imron suggested always having the next book lined up when you finish your current one. I though since the first ten are probably the most difficult, it would be great to have a list to draw from that is somewhat progressive in difficultly but each book is still easy (and interesting) enough to keep the momentum going.

 

So basically:

 

1. What are the first ten (or 5, if 10's too much) books you read?

2. In what order did you read them? 

3. Now that you know better, what books would you add/remove?

4. How would you re-arrange the list to improve it?

 

 

 

[DavyJonesLocker]

I presume you mean outside graded readers? 

I'm at the same position myself now . 

A major factor would be trying to balance difficulty with interest. I think using a tablet to read ebooks and pleco OCR helps a lot in terms of reading fluidity thus allowing you to tackle content with a lot of unknown words.

 

I think the standard advice of reading at 95% comprehension level is too theoretical and quite flawed in terms of practicality. In reality you could well have a understanding at a 7k word comprehension level, yet pick up a 3k reader and still find that you're nowhere near the 95 or 98% mark.

(Not sure what the optimal level is supposed to be).

Further I  believe the difficulty of sentences, grammar, abstract nature, cultural references and so on  are the determining factor in what to read,  not the "unknown word count". (within reason of course).

 

[Lu]

I dug through the 'What are you reading' thread, where I reported all my Chinese reading, and I can tell you that I read in full:

张系国：棋王

虹影：饥饿的女儿

Some 黄春明 short stories, not quite a book's worth but still a good number

章缘：疫

Some 散文 by 尹丽川, I don't remember if I read the entire book

A book by 亦舒, don't remember which one.

棉棉：熊猫 (wait, actually I finished this much later)

The Vagina Monologues in Chinese translation

余华：活着 (at the time I noted that it was my fifth full Chinese book)

张洁：无字

Full book of short stories by 朱文

 

And more after that. I had stopped counting by this point.

 

Before my first book I had a few false starts, I could have read a full book earlier if I had just sat down with it and persevered. In between the books I finished there are also a few that I started but didn't finish.

 

If I had to recommend first books to others, I'd recommend 活着, 圈子圈套 and 张系国's 棋王, but for myself, I am satisfied with what I read and the order I read it in. The most important thing is that you read something you want to read, either because the story is great, or because you got the book from someone you love or respect, or because you're interested in the author, or whatever. The motivation doesn't matter, but it has to come from the book itself. Don't make yourself read something you don't care for just because it is at the right level for you. Reading should be for pleasure.

[imron]

Going through the same "what are you reading" thread (but over a longer period of time), below is my list from when I started making a conscious effort to do more reading.  The list is in the order that I read them, and I read them one after the other (sometimes finishing one and straight away picking up the next).  Like I mentioned to Mark, it's always a good idea to have your next book ready to go before you finish your current one to prevent any break or lull in reading.

 

Like Lu, I could read quite well when I first starting doing this and regularly read newspaper articles and such, but other than a couple of half-hearted attempts, I had only previously finished 1 or 2 novels, and didn't do any sort of regular long form reading.   Also worth noting is that when I decided to do more reading the first book I chose was actually《书剑恩仇录》.  However due to it having too many new words/characters a page I put that aside and came back to it a dozen books later which made it much easier to read (an experience I wrote about here).  This was a good decision.  I've since come to the opinion that you are better off reading a bunch of easier novels than struggling through a more difficult one - especially when you are just starting out.  If the more difficult book is one you really want to read, you can always come back to it later (like I did) and it will be much more enjoyable.

 

In the list, I've highlighted the books I think are suitable for beginners in blue, and the books I'd avoid entirely in red.  The reason I'd avoid them is not because the language used is unsuitable, but rather because I didn't like the book.  I've also thrown in a couple of oranges, which are books I didn't like, but that are part of a set so it may be worth reading them if you are interested in being able to say you've read the set.  Finally, you'll see a couple of green ones, which are my favourites out of all the books listed here.  《平凡的世界》in particular is one of my favourite books I've read in any language (I've written about it here).  Although it's quite accessible in terms of language, it's really long, which is I why I don't recommend it as a first book because you'll want to build up your reading stamina before tackling it.

 

《汉语与文化交际》
《家》
《春》
《秋》
《活着》
《许三观卖血记》
《记忆的微风》
《天下无贼》
《中国式离婚》
《兄弟》(上)
《兄弟》(下)
《书剑恩仇录》(上）
《书剑恩仇录》(下)
《碧血剑》(上)
《碧血剑》(下)
《圈子圈套1》
《圈子圈套2》
《圈子圈套3》
《射雕英雄传》(1)
《射雕英雄传》(2)
《射雕英雄传》(3)
《射雕英雄传》(4)
《狼图腾》
《在细雨中呼喊》
《平凡的世界》(1)
《平凡的世界》(2)
《平凡的世界》(3)
《色，戒》
《神雕侠侣》(1)
《神雕侠侣》(2)
《神雕侠侣》(3)
《神雕侠侣》(4)
《夜谭十计》 (includes the short story that《让子弹飞》was based off)
《人生》which is by the same author as 《平凡的世界》
《雪山飞狐》
《杜拉拉升职记》    
《杜拉拉华年似水》
《杜拉拉3：我在这战斗的一年里》
《裸婚》
《蛙》
《飞狐外传》
《北京记者》
《黄金时代》

 

If I was doing it again I'd definitely change up the order of things.  I was smart enough to put aside《书剑恩仇录》until I was a better reader, but was still stuck in the trap of wanting to read "great literature/notable books", hence 《家》《春》and《秋》.  Those books are worthy of reading for the insight they give you in to China during that period of time, but in hindsight, I would have been better off reading them later.  I had to force myself to finish 《春》because it was boring me to tears.  《家》and 《秋》were much better in that regard but still contained enough archaic and old-fashioned language that I wouldn't recommend them as first books (I know others disagree with this).

 

Of the blue books, 《活着》is the one I'd recommend first, although《许三观卖血记》is at around the same level and is also a good choice (I put 《活着》first because I prefer the story).  余华 is a very accessible author for learners because the language he uses isn't too complicated, the only thing is, he tends to write about the same sort of things, and so if you've read a couple of his books and want a break from that genre, you'll have to go to another author.  Here's how I would break down the genres of the other blue books

 

Rural China/Cultural Revolution and Beyond

《活着》
《许三观卖血记》

《人生》(same author as 《平凡的世界》)

 

Modern China - Business Intrigue

《圈子圈套1》
《圈子圈套2》
《圈子圈套3》

 

Modern China - Relationship Drama

《中国式离婚》

《裸婚》

 

Reading things in the same genre will have the benefit of having similar vocabulary, but mixing things up can keep things interesting.  It comes down to personal preference as to what works better for you.  If you look at the main list, you'll see I tended to read a few books in one genre and then switch up to another genre, and then go back to the original genre and so on.  I think that approach worked quite well.

 

Once you've read all those blue books, you can probably start venturing out in to longer and/or more difficult works.  《兄弟》is good if you like 余华, although the second half is much better than the first.  If you're looking at getting in to 武侠 novels 《雪山飞狐》is one of 金庸's more accessible stories, and《流星•蝴蝶•剑》by Gu Long is also apparently quite accessible (but I haven't read it).  《鬼吹灯 》also comes recommended (but again I've not read it so can't comment more on it).

 

Once you're comfortable reading longer texts then《平凡的世界》might be a good choice, or perhaps some of the other 金庸 novels -《碧血剑》is a favourite of mine.

 

Regarding advice for book selection,  I think for the first 10-20 books, I'd really focus on pulpy, easy read books just to build up reading stamina and other reading skills (not to mention incidental vocabulary).

 

With handful of exceptions, the way I chose books was just to walk in to one of the giant bookstores (北京图书大厦 is 西单 is a favourite) and have a browse around to see if any of the promoted books looked interesting or if any of the authors I knew had other books available, and then purchase 10-15 books at a time (this also solved the problem mentioned above about always having the next book ready).

 

I agree with Lu that you need to enjoy the book you are reading, but I'd hold off on more difficult books that you want to read until after you have acquired decent reading experience and ability - that way they'll be that much more enjoyable.  Once you've got 10-20 books under your belt you can then start to branch out in to more serious literature.

 

The only other thing I'd add is the importance of doing daily reading, even if it's only a page, or half a page.  Once you stop, it's easy to stay stopped - and somewhat ironically, that's the position I find myself in at the moment, as I haven't done much long-form Chinese reading for a number of months.  I could blame an international move, or life getting in the way, but there are always excuses if you want to make them.  Making sure you do a little bit of reading every day helps keep the momentum going.

[imron]

On 3/23/2019 at 4:01 PM, DavyJonesLocker said:

I think using a tablet to read ebooks and pleco OCR helps a lot in terms of reading fluidity thus allowing you to tackle content with a lot of unknown words.

Personally, I'd avoid this.  Yes it lets you read more advanced content, but it holds you back from developing the very skills needed to be able to read more advanced content by yourself because you outsource those skills to the device.  Paper books are the way to go because they force you to address your shortcomings.

[zander1]

57 minutes ago, imron said:

在细雨中呼喊

 

Oh god I remember grabbing this after reading quite easily through 活着 and finding it totally impenetrable, I think it’s still lying discarded somewhere in my house 

[imron]

6 minutes ago, zander1 said:

Oh god I remember grabbing this after reading quite easily through 活着 and finding it totally impenetrable,

It's red for a reason   This is what I had to say about it at the time.

[DavyJonesLocker]

@imron

 

excellent and helpful list, many thanks 

[imron]

1 hour ago, imron said:

Once you've got 10-20 books under your belt you can then start to branch out in to more serious literature.

Something else I forgot to mention, 10-20 books is probably around the point where you could branch out in to reading books in the other character set (traditional or simplified, depending on which one you'd started with) and be able to pick up that set with very little difficulty just through reading a book or two and looking up the characters you don't recognise.  You could do it sooner if you wanted, but it wouldn't be as easy.

[imron]

The other point I wanted to mention, is that I think there is definitely use and benefit in reading (and struggling) through books above your level, it's just that everyone is limited in the amount of time they can spend on studying Chinese, so while it's possible to derive some benefit from such activities, it won't provide as much benefit as just going through a bunch of easier stuff first to build up your knowledge, experience and stamina.

[Lu]

3 hours ago, imron said:

《家》《春》and《秋》.  Those books are worthy of reading for the insight they give you in to China during that period of time, but in hindsight, I would have been better off reading them later.  I had to force myself to finish 《春》because it was boring me to tears.  《家》and 《秋》were much better in that regard but still contained enough archaic and old-fashioned language that I wouldn't recommend them as first books (I know others disagree with this).

Yes, me ? I must admit that I read 家 when I already had a number of books under my belt, but I found it pretty easy. Sure there is some old-fashioned vocabulary (words for old-fashioned things and old-fashioned words in general), but the total number of different words is relatively low, making them easier to digest. So perhaps not as a first book, but if you are interested in this period of history, know that you can read 家 quite early on (in my opinion). I do agree that 春 was boring. I never read 秋.

[murrayjames]

The first ten Chinese-language books I read are, in chronological order:

1. 《新使用汉语课本第一册》 刘珣（主编）
2. 《新使用汉语课本第二册》 刘珣（主编）
3. 《新使用汉语课本第三册》 刘珣（主编）
4. 《新使用汉语课本第四册》 刘珣（主编）
5. 《新使用汉语课本第五册》 刘珣（主编）
6. 《白色日本童话》 王泉根（主编）
7. 《基本乐理通用教材》 李重光
8. 《盛世—中国2013》 陈冠中
9. 《毛主席语录》 毛泽东
10. 《活着》 余华

This order worked for me; I wouldn’t change it. I started with Chinese-language learning textbooks, then continued with children’s stories, an accessible non-fiction textbook in my field (music), then finally onto modern literature.

 

The reading advice and book suggestions that @imron and @Lu have shared on these forums have been incredibly motivating and helpful. Others, too: @roddy, @bokane, @renzhe, @skylee, @Meng Lelan. I would not have had the nerve to start reading 20th-century Chinese literature without their good example.

 

I am reading 余华’s 《在细雨中呼喊》now. Don’t listen to the haters. It is good. The 《婚礼》chapter is a modest masterpiece with an existential kick as powerful as anything in 《活着》or 《许三观卖血记》.

[murrayjames]

I just went through Lu and Imron’s reading lists again. Some good stuff in there. Added 张洁’s《无字》 and 金庸’s《碧血剑》 to my list of books to read. 

 

@imron, why do you consider 张爱玲’s 《色、戒》a work to “avoid entirely”? I recommend it, partly for the rich descriptions of Shanghai at night, partly for the questions 张爱玲 raises about love, patriotic duty, and female agency (questions 李安 would later explore in greater depth in his film adaptation).

[imron]

4 hours ago, murrayjames said:

why do you consider 张爱玲’s 《色、戒》a work to “avoid entirely”?

One thing to clarify, when I say《色、戒》I was referring to the entire book which is a collection of short stories of which《色、戒》is but one, rather than just《色、戒》the individual story. 

 

It's been years now since I read the book so although I have a distinct impression that I didn't like it, the specifics of why are a little hazy.

 

From memory the reason was because it was a series of short stories but the stories aren't so much stories with a start, beginning and end, but rather just a window in to people's life at a certain point in time, and you observe that for a short while and then stop.  And then move on to the next one, and then stop.  It's just the feeling of being left hanging and nothing really happening.  It's fine if you are looking for rich descriptions and snapshots of life, but frustrating if you are trying to figure out where things are going (which my mind tends to do automatically when I'm reading) and then it just ends - hah no story arc for you!

 

And then it happens again in the next story, and again in the next.  It might be that the individual story《色、戒》wasn't like this, but a large number of the stories in the book were.

 

It's a writing style that I tend to find frustrating and unrewarding, and one that is a very common feature of Chinese novels (far more so than English novels), and although that writing style doesn't bother me as much as it used to, there needs to be compelling characters that hold my interest and that I want to know more about, and that's much harder to do with short stories.  平凡的世界 is an example of this 'window to your life' style of writing that held my interest.

[murrayjames]

7 hours ago, imron said:

when I say《色、戒》I was referring to the entire book which is a collection of short stories of which《色、戒》is but one

 

Ah. Haven't read that collection.

 

I do know the kind of unsatisfying storytelling you're talking about. A story with a promising premise; a fascinating character or two; a plot that begins in media res, that contains a few interesting narrative set pieces, then ends abruptly without resolving the established conflict. I tend not to enjoy stories like this, either.

 

Not sure if the short story 《色、戒》 is this kind of unsatisfying story, on your view. I found the story super interesting from a formal perspective. Many of the events of the story occurred in the past. These events are conveyed through a series of flashbacks. Meanwhile, in the present, the main character 王佳芝 sits in a coffeehouse alone, waiting for her married collaborationist lover 易先生 to arrive. Much of the story is characterized by inaction: a woman waits for a man; and only after the man arrives does the story continue. This middle part of the story is bookended by scenes of 易先生’s wife and her friends playing majiang at home. It is a novel narrative structure. On a plot level, the story is about a female spy (王佳芝) who is tasked with killing her collaborationist lover (易先生). But on a structural level, the story moves from the betrayed wife (易太太) to the adulteress (王佳芝) and back to the betrayed wife.

[imron]

2 hours ago, murrayjames said:

A story with a promising premise; a fascinating character or two; a plot that begins in media res, that contains a few interesting narrative set pieces, then ends abruptly without resolving the established conflict.

That's exactly the feeling I'm talking about.  You start to invest yourself in the story and them *bam*, story's gone.

 

I don't recall if the《色、戒》story was like that, but many of the other stories in the collection were.  Maybe I'll try and dig up my copy from whatever box it's currently in and try reading just that one again.

[Lu]

Thanks for explaining why you didn't like 《色，戒》. The description is useful, it sounds like something I would like. It also sounds a lot like 《半生缘》, which I read in Dutch and liked a lot.