A linguistic hybrid: naming Roman letters in Chinese

[shibo77]

Let me explain this list a little:

A ay ā

B 壁 bē

C 希 cē

D 帝 dē

E 亿 ē

F eh fuh éf

G zhee gē

H ay-ch(eh-ch) hā

I 爱 yī

J 这(zhèi) jiē

K kay kē

L ehl-luh(ehl-lwo) él

M eh-muh ém

N 恩 nē

O 欧 ō

P 屁 pē

Q kiur qiū

R 儿 ár

S eh-seh és

T 剃 tē

U 哟 wū

Ü ~ yū

V 威 vē

W 答不六 wā

X 爱克斯 xī

Y 外 yā

Z zay zē

First column are English majuscule lettres.

Second column are approximate sounds in Chinese when a Chinese speaker pronounces the English lettres. Chinese-accented pronunciation for the English lettres. There is no standard because this is the incorrect way to pronounce the English lettres. When a teacher teaches English in China the teacher uses the International Phonetic Alphabet.

"ei bi: si: di: ..." I wrote them according to how I felt people pronounced them, and those are purely my choice of characters, 答不六 can also be 达步遛 or anything else that are pronounced as dábùliù®. Also there might be differences to it from person-to-person and from region-to-region. I have heard the English lettre "C" pronounced both as "西(希) xī" and also as "塞 sēi (塞's regional pronunciation)".

Third column are the standard pronunciation for the Hanyu Pinyin lettres or Chinese lettres, written in Hanyu Pinyin. This has a standard and also it has a standard way of writing them with Chinese characters as well.

-Shìbó

[atitarev]

X-Ray is 爱克斯光 àikèsīguāng or X光

I also heard from different people that X should be pronounced by Chinese as [eks] - exactly as in English and "xi" (Pinyin). This makes a 3rd version.

It's too late, I probably return to this thread to talk about "AA制", "BP机" "X光" and similar words.

EDIT:

Edit:

I guess 爱克斯光 and X光 are identical but X is meant to be pronounced in English but 爱克斯 is an attempt to transliterate it. I am also interested if there are any formal guides on how to pronounce and how to write down Latin/Roman, English or Pinyin letters (if there is a difference in Chinese).

Chinese Wikipedia:

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/X

doesn't give the Chinese pronunciation of the letter.

[trien27]

atitarev:

"I guess 爱克斯光 and X光 are identical but X is meant to be pronounced in English but 爱克斯 is an attempt to transliterate it."

Not transliterate: To transliterate[in Latin: trans- = cross/cross over, -liter- = letter, ate = "to make?"] is to transpose from one letter to the next from one language to the next using two or more alphabets. Since there's no alphabet in Chinese, you cannot use the word tranliterate. It is to "sinicize" [to make something look Chinese] the word.

X光 = used in HK to translate X-ray.

爱克斯光 is Mandarin speaker's attempt to sinicize the word/letter: 爱克斯, aikesi is read as "aik (faint e) s" = X.

光 = ray of light; bright.

[imron]

I'm sorry, but transliterate is perfectly acceptable English, even when talking about using Chinese to represent English words.

From my Oxford Dictionary:

transliterate: (usu. be transliterated) write or print (a letter or word) using the closest corresponding letters of a different alphabet or language

We all know chinese doesn't have an alphabet and letters, but to suggest that means you can't use the word transliterate when referring to words taken from another language is IMO incorrect.

[mr.stinky]

excellent! next time a chinese friend mentions the vast body of chinese literature, i'll just

laugh and point out chinese has no alphabet, hence no literature! after all, who could

write it (uh, character it?) - they're all illiterate.

[atitarev]

I agree, it's OK to use "transliterate", although Chinese doesn't normally use letters.

I asked a Chinese colleague, how they normally write "Java", he said it was normally written and pronounced the English way, the wikipedia confirmed this + for some other programming languages.

However, Declan's Chinese Dictionary suggests 爪哇 [zhuǎwā] (no immediate conversion with MS IME). My search produced quite a few hits. When I used a Chinese employment site, I saw too many Roman spelling of programming languages in Chinese ads. It seems both are possible and popular.

http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp045_chinese_alphabet.pdf

Read:

The Assimilation of Roman Letters into the Chinese Writing System by Mark Hansell.

[self-taught-mba]

recorded things for you random things 2 websites, 3 names:

www.1monthchinese.com

www.chinese-forums.com

java

microsoft

carlo

Also notice how close the m and n are. (so many times people swear I say NBA when I say MBA, yeah the NBA has lots of guys with a beer belly:mrgreen:)

Speaker 1: Jiangsu ren / near fluent English

Speaker 2: Beijing ren / good English

Speaker 1's English is much better but #2 spells things much closer to the way we do (but she taught English for 5 years). Asked if she spells that way to Chinese speakers and they understand and she says yes.

Chinese Spelling1.mp3

Chinese Spelling2.mp3

[imron]

After a post in this thread regarding the Chinese pronunciation of the letter X, I asked a Chinese friend of mine if he could tell me Chinese pronunciation of all the other letters of the alphabet.

Below is the list, which will come in useful for anyone who's ever wanted to learn how to pronounce the alphabet in Chinese. Anyway, my friend mentioned it's not any sort of official list, just the characters he feels match the pronunciation of each individual letter.

A 爱意

B 碧

C 四溢

D 地

E 意

F 爱抚

G 只一，寄

H 爱吃，诶吃

I 阿一

J 直诶

K 可以

L 埃路

M 埃莫

N 恩

O 噢

P 屁

Q 球，尅有

R 啊

S 爱死

T 剃

U 优

V 喂

W 打不溜

X 埃克斯

Y 外

Z 贼，仔儿的

I'd also be interested in hearing what other native Chinese speakers think match the pronunciation of these letters.

[peekay]

Technically there is "no" Chinese pronunciation for these letters. Instead, English pronunciation is supposed to be used, even in formal contexts. E.g., if your Passport number is F1034... it's supposed to be pronounced "F" yao ling san si, etc., not "爱抚" yao ling san si, etc.

Of course this is problematic for Chinese speakers who are not fluent in English, so they would often "substitute" similar Chinese sounds for these letters, according to their own abilities.

Also see: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/5837-a-linguistic-hybrid-naming-roman-letters-in-chinese&page=3

[imron]

Like I said, it's not an official list, just what my friend thought matched the pronunciation of the letters. Technically there might not be any Chinese pronunciation for them, but realistically there always is. If you ever find yourself in a position where you need to spell out your name or email address over the phone to a non-English speaking Chinese person, then knowing the "Chinese" pronunciation is incredibly useful and saves a great deal of time and hassle.

Nice find on the other thread though. Merging.

[atitarev]

In HSK tests all English letters are pronounced like in English, I heard the same in some radio programs in Chinese. There is a slight accent - like losing some voiceness of voiced consonants. The letters are clearly assigned some tones. If I remember correctly, I heard: ēi, bì, sī, dì or something like that. I wonder if there is a full list of how they should be pronounced. My last year's laoshi said, the letters should be pronounced like in English, as much as it is possible in Mandarin.

Interesting that WTO when used in a Chinese context is clearly [dubl'yu - tee-owe].

Can someone say how "CD" could be transcribed in pinyin. Which tones? Also, in "T恤衫", how is T pronounced?

[fengyixiao]

shibo77 is right,we do have our pronouncition for "abcd……z"，as below:

A ay ā

B 壁 bē

C 希 cē

D 帝 dē

E 亿 ē

F eh fuh éf

G zhee gē

H ay-ch(eh-ch) hā

I 爱 yī

J 这(zhèi) jiē

K kay kē

L ehl-luh(ehl-lwo) él

M eh-muh ém

N 恩 nē

O 欧 ō

P 泼 pē

Q kiur qiū

R 儿 ár

S eh-seh és

T 剃 tē

U 哟 wū

Ü ~ yū

V 威 vē

W 答不六 wā

X 爱克斯 xī

Y 外 yā

Z zay zē

But,in china，all the students will study English,so there are two system for pronouncing the "ABCD……Z".

i.e. the name Carol，if pronounce it in pinyin,the acoording chinese may like "擦若"。In fact,the “ro” is an incorrect PinYin，the correct PinYin for "ro" is "ruo".

so we pronounce the name carol as "卡罗尔/kaluoer",ka'luo'er are pinyin for 卡罗尔。It sounds like carol in english.

Another expample is "Scotland "，in chinese it is "苏格兰"，they sounds like each other.

The pinyin for 苏格兰 is su'ge'lan。 As scot'land, it's not a pinyin.

Another fact,alomost every student in china will study english, so everyone know a little english. So,when we see a english word or a word like english,we will read it in enlish just as people in england and america。If we recognize a combine as pinyin，we prounce it in Pinyin .

[atitarev]

fengyixiao, your post is hard to read and I didn't quite understand it, especially this part:

i.e. the name Carol，if pronounce it in pinyin,the acoording chinese may like "擦若"。In fact,the “ro” is an incorrect PinYin，the correct PinYin for "ro" is "ruo".

English R in front of a vowel is Sinicised as L. R is not an incorrect Pinyin but correct English R. That's why Carol becomes 卡罗尔. Kǎluō'ěr. This thread is not about this, though.

In the copied list the characters and the Roman pronunciation of letters don't match, e.g. B 壁 bē, 壁 is bì, not bē; C 希 cē, 希 is xī, not cē. We still don't have a definite guide how to pronounce English and Pinyin letters in Mandarin.

Even if the letters are pronounce the English way, I could clearly hear consistently used tones in HSK sample and actual tests. So is B pronounced bī or bì?

[fengyixiao]

In the copied list the characters and the Roman pronunciation of letters don't match, e.g. B 壁 bē, 壁 is bì, not bē; C 希 cē, 希 is xī, not cē. We still don't have a definite guide how to pronounce English and Pinyin letters in Mandarin.

Even if the letters are pronounce the English way, I could clearly hear consistently used tones in HSK sample and actual tests. So is B pronounced bī or bì?

***************************************************

Sorry for my poor Enlish.

Actually ，B used for pinyin prounounce 不哦 or be(don't pronounce it in enlish)。

I find some online video to teach one how to ponounce them when "ABC……" are used for chinese Pinyin .

1、Standard

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjY4MjYyNjg=.html

When I a little student,just pronounce "ABC……" as that in the above video.

As for HSK,I don't kown the detail. But I learned from the Chinese Brighe,foreigh stutents claimed they learn Pinyin just as the above video.

2、chinese children learn Pinyin

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQ2NzMxOTI=.html

[fengyixiao]

As for "carlo"，how to pronounce it acorrording whether it is a "english word " or a "chinese PinYin".

If you treat "carlo" as an "Enlish word",just read it as same as Enlish.

If you treat "carlo" an an "chinese PinYin",you should pronounce it acorrording the Pronouncation Rules of Chinese Pinyin.

Simply, rules differ.

[davoosh]

Today while listening to a short news piece, I came across a word that totally stumped me, it sounded like 'PIE MA'. Eventually I found out that it was actually 'PM' pronounced in the Chinese way.

This made me wonder, how do Chinese pronounce the letters of the Roman alphabet? What tones are used on each one? I assume 'B' is not pronounced 'bi1' for the obvious reasons...

Many thanks!

[Don_Horhe]

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for, but the 汉语拼音方案 gives the names of the letters as follows (taken from 中国语文的时代演进):

A - a

B - bei

C - cei

D - dei

E - e

F - ef

G - gei

H - ha

I - i

J - jie

K - kei

L - el

M - em

N - nei

O - o

P - pei

Q - qiu

R - ar

S - es

T - tei

U - u

V - vei

W - wa

X - xi

Y - ya

Z - zei

[davoosh]

Thanks, the only thing is they don't seem to be exactly how Chinese people tend to pronounce them (or at least how I've heard them pronounced). For example 'F' seems to be something like 'ai1 fu3' (not too sure of the tones here), etc.

[Iriya]

Educated people pronounce them the same as in English. They would even voice them (e.g. B).

[davoosh]

What about the average Chinese speaker using them in a sentence? Such as 'ai1 fu3'?

In that news piece, PM was definitely not pronounced as in English, it sounded like 'pi1 ei1 mu3/me3' or 'pi1 ye1mu' (something like that), which is why I thought it was an actual Chinese word.