People don't want to speak to me and Im dejected

[shoop]

First post here after reading lots on this forum, and not a happy one.

 

I’m feeling very dejected about Chinese study. I have been learning for a year and a half. I live in China. People understand me first time around when I say or ask things. My vocabulary is pretty small but growing. I love studying the language and find it very interesting.

 

My problem is that I feel like nobody wants to communicate with me in Chinese! I get so many responses in English or simply an answer of “OK”. I lived here for a year before studying Chinese, I thought learning Chinese would bring me closer to the culture but it has actually had the opposite effect and Im starting to feel dislike for the people. I read on here all these post about Chinese people being so supportive when you speak Chinese, so thankful for your effort, so complimentary - I get very little of that. And if I go to any sort of western type hotel or restaurant etc, then forget it, I have to battle with them to speak Chinese. And I’m the one who is paying for the service! It feels so demoralizing. I’m trying to get myself to respond by saying something like “Women keyi shuo zhong wen ma? Yinwei wo xihuan xuexi zhong wen.” I don’t know if that will help. I feel weird that I’m in china yet I have to beg people to speak the local language. I feel robbed by not getting any natural input from people around because they will simply not talk to me like not saying “guo yi xia” on the subway but rather just grunting or saying “excuse me”.

 

So disappointing when you listen these pleasant conversations on cpod, but then I go out in the world and nobody will give me the time of day. When a shop clerk shows me a calculator rather than just saying it, it infuriates me. I get scared talking to people because I’ve been conditioned now that if I make the slightest mistake they will switch to English. I really feel its unfair. They are not treated like this when they go to English speaking countries and speak their crappy English. This country seems so obsessed with English. I know this is a rant. But this situation is making me feel depressed and I don’t know how to solve it. Im starting to walk around with a chip on my shoulder

[imron]

Forget Chinese for a minute, what are other things that you like to do?

 

There are almost certainly Chinese people who like to do that too.

 

Go and find people local to your area who also do that thing and hang out with them to do that thing.

 

Probably many of them don't speak English or don't speak it very well, and they will speak to you in Chinese in order to be able to do that thing with you.

 

Western type hotels and restaurants are likely going to have trained staff to try and interact in English.  They are bad places to practice Chinese, because if your Chinese isn't better than their English they are going to want to use the simplest, easiest way to communicate and that will be English.  It will also be their default for all foreigners - don't take it personally.

 

2 hours ago, shoop said:

because they will simply not talk to me like not saying “guo yi xia” on the subway but rather just grunting

You are not being robbed of this experience.  This is the normal experience, even for Chinese people.

 

2 hours ago, shoop said:

When a shop clerk shows me a calculator rather than just saying it, it infuriates me.

Your life will be a lot less infuriating if you stop assuming negative intent.  You are taking them showing you a calculator as a slight against your Chinese and then getting upset at that perceived slight.

 

In reality, the shopkeeper doesn't know you from the next random foreigner to walk in their shop.  If they are showing you a calculator as a first response they have probably had many other foreigners come in to their shop who didn't speak Chinese and this was simply the easiest way for them to facilitate the transaction.

 

And that's what their intention is - to try and make things as smooth as possible for both of you.  Based on experience and/or stereotypes, they are not expecting to have a chat with a foreigner who walks in to their shop, they are instead expecting to make a transaction.  Once again, don't take it personally, in fact you could use them showing you a calculator as a conversation opener - ask them if they think you can't speak Chinese, ask them if all the other foreigners that come in can't speak Chinese, make a joke saying you can't read "Chinese numbers" (yes I know the numbers aren't "Chinese", that's the joke).  There are dozens of responses you could go to instead of "I'm infuriated that this shopkeeper is showing me a calculator", and every single one of them is within your control (including feeling infuriated or not).

 

In general, assume positive intent (until proven otherwise) and don't take things personally.

 

Finally, there is also the possibility that your pronunciation is horrible and people can't understand you.   You could visit this thread and upload a recording of you saying the phrases you mentioned in your OP and maybe people will be able to tell you if there are any problems.  If nothing else, you'll get some honest feedback about whether the problem is your pronunciation or the people/situations you are trying to speak Chinese with.

[889]

Where are you? You mention the subway, so it must be a large city and if it's Shanghai, Shanghai people seem to always assume stupid foreigners can't speak the language.

 

For complete immersion, a smaller place would probably be better. And heading to Western-style hotels is asking for trouble. Go down-market.

[Wurstmann]

Try making friends. In my experience a lot of people give up speaking English/German quite fast because it's too much of a struggle for them.

Where in China are you? When I was in Shanghai most of the people would just use 普通话 or even 上海话 when talking to me. Granted, I did live in 闵行 not in the city center.

[mackie1402]

46 minutes ago, imron said:

if your Chinese isn't better than their English they are going to want to use the simplest, easiest way to communicate and that will be English

 

This is true for basically everyone, except for Chinese teachers, of course.

 

One time I remember quite well was a Chinese friend talking to me in English about how he just sent his 6 year old daughter to America for a summer camp, but she found an American girl with great Chinese and only spoke Chinese the whole time. Half way through he was complaining that it was a waste of money, and why would she use Chinese instead of English in America. At the exact same time, he started explaining it in Chinese to me, because he was struggling to express what he wanted in English. That exact moment I explained he has just done the same thing as his daughter, and used the easiest option to communicate. It's just natural. 

 

2 hours ago, shoop said:

They are not treated like this when they go to English speaking countries and speak their crappy English

 

When you tried speaking to Chinese locals, did they tell you that you had crappy Chinese? No? Then best to not stereotype Chinese for being 'crappy English' speakers. I know a lot who speak better than a native, and are much more read. Secondly, English is a pretty international language spoken as a second language in many countries, where as Chinese just isn't. This is why people don't reply in Chinese in English speaking countries; because they can't.

 

If you go out thinking negatively, you'll only get negative experiences. 

 

Here are a few things you could try:

 

Study in public places

You'll soon notice a lot of people paying attention to what you're doing. Some will even approach you to start a conversation. 

 

Spend time at public parks

There are always an abundance of retired locals who love talking. I've had conversations for hours with some of these people. It's a true learning experience. Most of them are very patient, too. 

 

Do some hobbies in Chinese

Some are more expensive than others I know, but there must be something you're interested in. I got a Chinese personal trainer to help me out, and my vocabulary really improved in that area. Go out and play basketball, football, go on a photography tour (It'll be mostly retired men, but it's still great fun and an experience.)

 

Make the most of taxi rides

I find Didi are much better than the regular taxis, but both are great for casual chit chat. After a couple of taxi rides you'll be a pro at telling people what you do, where you're from and that you're used to Chinese food. Every taxi ride try asking a couple of questions. I like asking them about experience with other foreigners in their cars. 

 

In summary, I find the best way to learn Chinese in China, isn't by studying Chinese, but by living your life and using Chinese to survive. 

 

[roddy]

1 hour ago, imron said:

Finally, there is also the possibility that your pronunciation is horrible and people can't understand you.

Which is what I was about to say. It's not a nice thought to consider, and if people are understanding you first time round (do they repeat back to confirm? Ideally they won't) it's probably not the issue. But poor pronunciation puts strain on the conversation, so do consider it. 

 

3 hours ago, shoop said:

And if I go to any sort of western type hotel or restaurant etc, then forget it, I have to battle with them to speak Chinese. And I’m the one who is paying for the service!

To reiterate what Imron has said - the staff in a place like this have quite possibly been employed because they speak English, and are liable to get told off if they're heard not doing so. I'd also note that you're not paying for them to speak Chinese for you, you're paying for whatever you're ordering. 

 

Where do you live? I'd suggest striking off down a couple of random backstreets and trying out various places that rarely if ever see foreigners. Become a regular, leave your Chinese textbooks on the table, and when it's not busy strike up a conversation. And if they want to practice their English, let them do that a bit too. 

[somethingfunny]

When they show you the calculator you just verbally confirm the amount with them in Chinese. They’ll be so used to foreigners who can’t speak Chinese that they’ll gladly engage in some small talk with you - plus the fact that they’re relying on a calculator because they can’t speak any English!

 

What do you do in your spare time and evenings? Stay at home watching Netflix?  Find the local square where all the retired people go. I spent an entire summer learning how to write calligraphy on the floor with a water brush and you can be sure as hell none of those guys spoke to me in English.  The added benefit of finding someone to talk to through a hobby is that people will happily go on and on about something they’re interested in.  The old geezers explaining calligraphy and poetry to me didn’t really care how much I understood, and it didn’t matter, they were just happy to have someone listen to them talk about their favourite thing and ask the odd question.

[roddy]

Just now, somethingfunny said:

I spent an entire summer learning how to write calligraphy on the floor with a water brush and you can be sure as hell none of those guys spoke to me in English.  

Ok, now I want to see photos of your H20 penmanship.

[889]

As well, try not to look like a businessman or tourist. Observe how Chinese your age dress and copy them. Shoes/hair count. No beard!

 

Don't go out with other foreigners.

 

Adopt an approachable, open stance.

 

Watch how Chinese react when you speak. If there's that polite but strained look, you're not getting through clearly and step one is to work on your language skills. To repeat again, the overwhelming problem studying Chinese is speaking so that you are understood. And it involves a lot more than just tones and pronunciation.

 

[shoop]

47 minutes ago, somethingfunny said:

What do you do in your spare time and evenings? Stay at home watching Netflix?

Hahaha this made me laugh ?. No, I don't ?

 

Ok, there is lots of great stuff here and good points from everybody. Thank you. I'll reply to the individual posters, but generally this is all useful advice.

[abcdefg]

Many good ideas above. I live in a place (older section of Kunming) where very few people speak English. That helps. Conversation takes place in Chinese or not at all. Also remember that a year and a half is really not all that long. Don't give up! 加油！

[Dawei3]

 

7 hours ago, shoop said:

Chinese people being so supportive when you speak Chinese,

I have to ask:  How are you engaging them?  I’m one of those people who finds countless opportunities to speak Chinese when I’m visiting, even when staying in Western hotels.  While the staff in any hotel begins in English, most delight in the fact I can speak Chinese.  Over the years as my Chinese has improved, I’ve been increasingly happy about that I'm able to check-in using virtually all Chinese.  Also, I’ve developed some nice friendships with hotel staff in China;  something that never happens to me in the US.

 

I really have fun speaking Chinese and I expect the Chinese sense this.

 

However, as Imron notes part of the reason staff & random strangers will talk with me in Chinese is likely due to my pronunciation.  That is, when I first started going to China, people would rapidly switch to English.  They likely (correctly) sensed my Chinese wasn't too good.  Now, the opposite sometimes happens and they'll engage me with a rapid burst of conversation of which I only understand pieces.    

 

Positive topics are usually the best openers.  E.g., As a conversation opener on the subway, I’ll say “Wo hen xihuan Beijing de ditie.  Hen fang bian.  Hen pianyi.”  If they say its too crowded, I say Meiyou du che.  When I arrive at a hotel, I mention being happy to be there.  While local residents can complain about where they live, they don’t want non-natives to do so, so I look for the positives (and the positives I mention I really believe, so they know I’m genuine). 

 

After initially pleasantries, the best conversation starter I’ve found is Ni shi guo nei Zhongguo nali ren?*  People in general, and Chinese in particular, love to talk about where they are from; the food, the historic sites, and the local fangyan.  This works with old & young, male & female.  Even if the person is from Shanghai and you’re in Shanghai, it’s still good for opening conversations. 

 

If you can say a little fangyan from their region – even just one or 2 words - odds are you’ll make them laugh and create an instant connection. 

 

*While there are many ways to ask this, this one specifically gets the answer I want.  Other forms of this question often elicit as an answer Wo shi Zhongguo ren, which isn't a good conversation starter.  

[vellocet]

You have got to be in Beijing.  Get out of there...there's a whole country that speaks Chinese and barely a word of English.  Maybe it's hanging around in Western hotels and restaurants that's doing this to you.

[roddy]

Shanghai was my first thought. 

[Wurstmann]

21 minutes ago, roddy said:

Shanghai was my first thought. 

I honestly don't know where you find these fabled people who can or want to speak English. Random people on the street used Chinese, waiters couldn't speak English; they couldn't even speak English when I went to extend my visa. In my three years there I only encountered a handful of exceptions.

[Lu]

11 hours ago, Wurstmann said:

Try making friends. In my experience a lot of people give up speaking English/German quite fast because it's too much of a struggle for them.

Yeah, making friends or even language exchange starts working really in your favour once your Chinese is better than their English and they are a little bit lazy or shy. I once had a pretty long and fun conversation in Chinese with a girl who approached me explicitly to practice her English. She practiced two sentences of it and then was so relieved I could speak Chinese that we continued in that language.

 

As others already said: if a certain category of people (waiters in nice restaurants, shopkeepers in touristy areas) is not giving your Chinese the time of day, look elsewhere. And don't take it personally when people immediately switch to English. If I had a 毛 for every time a Chinese person told me in bad English how good my Chinese is, I would have a lot of money. Happened to me literally today. Some people are just not the people you're going to have a Chinese conversation with.

 

I hope you find more luck soon. Keep trying!

[abcdefg]

16 hours ago, Dawei3 said:

After initially pleasantries, the best conversation starter I’ve found is Ni shi guo nei Zhongguo nali ren?*  People in general, and Chinese in particular, love to talk about where they are from; the food, the historic sites, and the local fangyan.  This works with old & young, male & female.

 

This works well for me too! (Even though I go about it a little different, use different phrasing, etc.) 

[markhavemann]

This was very interesting for me to read because I have had a slightly similar experience, but maybe for different reasons. I suppose I often find myself as the shy one who happily slips into English as soon as any Chinese person shows any sign of having a reasonable level of English.

 

It is definitely easy to feel resentful or annoyed about not getting Chinese practice in China but I think it really does come down to approach and mindset, and what's been mentioned so far is great advice. 

 

I've also realised that the problem is almost always with me not being persistent enough, or my Chinese not being good enough for it to be the most efficient way to communicate in a given situation, and so there is no point resenting the people who are trying to practising English like I want to practise Chinese, or who are using their English to try to make my life easier (or who need to get on with their jobs and don't have time to be my free Chinese teacher/language partner).

 

 

[Flickserve]

On 8/2/2019 at 1:08 PM, shoop said:

When a shop clerk shows me a calculator rather than just saying it, it infuriates me.

 

LOL. That happens in Hong Kong as well and I speak the local language.

 

It's no good learning Chinese and expecting a western style restaurant to use Chinese if their English is better than your Chinese. It's a business that is not related to teaching nor practicing Chinese.

 

On 8/2/2019 at 1:08 PM, shoop said:

They are not treated like this when they go to English speaking countries and speak their crappy English

 

Of course bloody not if the other person can't speak Chinese. Duh. But I can guarantee if they had crappy English and came across a Chinese speaker, they will use the stronger language. 

 

There is a reason why tourist areas outside of China advertise for service staff with Chinese skills.

[somethingfunny]

A lot of the time it's a battle of will power.  Who is willing to go longer feeling uncomfortable, making mistakes, and being awkward?  I always saw it as a minor victory when I could get someone who insisted to speaking to me in English to switch to Chinese.

 

Also, I feel like the actual conversation with the Chinese person is about 20% of the work.  The other 80% comes from remembering (or making a note of) everything you had trouble communicating or understanding, then going home and learning that vocabulary and grammar and then going back out and looking for someone to have the exact same conversation with again.

 

Finally, there is a reason people need to be paid to teach other people how to speak a foreign language - it's not a lot of fun.  I don't want to have to deal with tourists and their crappy English all the time, and it's the same for Chinese people and my crappy Chinese.  So the question is, what added value do I bring to the interaction that makes up for the inconvenience of having to deal with someone with poor language skills?  Am I making up their numbers for a doubles badminton game or game of mahjong?  Am I listening to their story about when they were in the army and stationed at Dandong that no-one else is interested in listening to?  Am I assessing their daughter's English level and telling them whether or not their expensive weekend English classes are worth it?