Illegally working in China...

[谢恩灵]

I got stuck in a horrible situation where I was punished for working illegally as a part time English teacher on a student residence permit. I had to pay a fine and had to leave the country in 5 days; however, there was no restriction put on when I could come back. The police & exit entry admin said I would have no problem getting a new visa and coming back. I went to Thailand to get a tourist visa so I could go back and get all my things and deal with some personal stuff but then I found out I have to do this in my home country (USA) even though in China they said I could do it anywhere... annoying. Anyway I want to know if anyone has experience with this and if it is hard to get a multiple entry tourist visa even after having this on my record. In Chinese what I did is called 非法就业. There is also a section on the visa application form asking if I have a criminal record in China (犯罪记录), I was told by exit entry admin that what I did does not count as 犯罪 because it was just a violation of my visa, but its still very unclear what I should put in this section. Any help is very appreciated! Thank you

[mungouk]

FWIW I got a (single-entry) tourist visa for China in Chiang Mai earlier this year, and my home country is the UK. 

 

The year before that I got one in Singapore, where I was living at the time.

 

Maybe if you're applying for one of those US-only 10-year multiple entry ones it's different... but if all you need to do is to go back and sort some things out, then a standard single-entry L-visa will get you there.

 

 

 

[谢恩灵]

Yeah it’s because of my situation that the Thai Chinese embassy didn’t want to deal with it. If I was a regular applicant I would totally be able to get a visa 

[ChTTay]

I mean if you were told it doesn’t count as a criminal offence then don’t put it down as that.

 

I assume you asked the Chinese visa centre in Thailand? Rather than they brought it up themselves? 

 

Do you have something in your passport that says your visa was cancelled for a violation or it just says “cancelled”? 

 

If there is no part of the application that relates to a visa violation, being asked to leave the country, etc. Then it would seem you can just not put it down. China does seem more “joined up” these days so it’s a chance it might flag up somewhere. 

[889]

I would assume that of course the consul can find your record.

 

The application does ask whether you've ever been refused a visa, and that's pretty much like having a visa cancelled. I'd say something very brief in the "other" box. Don't try to rely on technical wording as an out.

 

Finally, I'd wait a year or so before applying again. First, looks like you're too eager to return to China. Second, if you are formally refused a visa, then getting a visa in the future will be all that harder.

 

[谢恩灵]

Yeah the main problem is I have two cats there that I need to figure out something to do with..... if I didn't have them I would just go home and not worry about it. I told the visa center in Thailand everything, I wondered maybe if I hadn't then maybe I'd have gotten the visa. Or the embassy would've accepted my application, saw this stuff, then rejected it. So this is better than a rejection. The residence permit just says "cancelled" but then I have another temporary 5 day stay visa in my passport that says "reason for visa: deportation" but in Chinese it says 限时间出境 (something like that at least) not 遣返. 

[889]

Well, forget what the Chinese says (and sadly, those cats). With "Deportation" stamped in English in your passport, you have a big problem. How can you not possibly say something in your application. And how can it not raise the reddest of flags. Trying to head back right away, without the strongest of reasons or connections, seems pretty unwise. You risk having to add "visa rejected" to the list.

 

Note too that that "Deportation" stamp may well catch the eye of immigration officials when you enter other countries and raise questions. It can make your passport radioactive.

[ChTTay]

Could get a new passport. 

[StChris]

Can I ask, how did you get caught? Did they bust into the school while you were teaching? Was it in Chengdu? They had a crackdown in Harbin earlier this year, although things seem to have calmed down again now.

 

I think you got off quite lightly. I heard people were being banned from entering the country again for 5 years. There were also rumours that people were being threatened with a few weeks prison time, unless they gave the police access to all their social media accounts.

 

I hope you manage to sort things out with your cats.

[889]

Note to the OP: better not to post anything identifying yourself too clearly.

 

Note to others: better not to ask too many questions.

[谢恩灵]

@889 I think I was unclear. There is no stamp saying I was deported. The only thing is a small section on the temporary stay permit saying in Chinese that I had a limited time to leave the country, the English translation is just deported (in very very small font) But there is a difference between what was on my passport and 遣返 which is very severe and has a ban on when you can come back. Many people who dealt with my case told me I will be able to return as they wanted me to be able to continue my studies. But that's my own choice not to

@StChris Well I'm not going to go into details but an evil vindictive mother was very angry with me and the school... there was no surprise raid or investigation it was because the mom went out of her way to get extra money and attention. Yes I did get off very lightly which is why I've heard I should be able to go back to china. 

 

Sighhhh such a shit situation to be stuck in... really ruined my life plans for at least the next 2 years

[ChTTay]

4 hours ago, 谢恩灵 said:

 

Sighhhh such a shit situation to be stuck in... really ruined my life plans for at least the next 2 years 

 

I do have some sympathy definitely with the OP. Especially with having been in the middle of studying and with the cats too (is someone looking after them?). Equally i’ve always thought that, for anyone who wants China to be a big part of their life, you have to respect the rules and regulations that are in place. Especially don’t do anything illegal. It’s just not worth the risk. 

 

5 hours ago, 谢恩灵 said:

Many people who dealt with my case told me I will be able to return

Do you think they said this just to placate you so you’d leave without making a fuss or causing trouble? 

 

I’d probably not come back for a while if I were you as @889 mentions.  If you did want to continue studying Chinese or work legally teaching English you could look at going to Taiwan. 

[StChris]

14 hours ago, 谢恩灵 said:

Well I'm not going to go into details but an evil vindictive mother was very angry with me and the school... there was no surprise raid or investigation it was because the mom went out of her way to get extra money and attention. Yes I did get off very lightly which is why I've heard I should be able to go back to china. 

 

Thanks for the details. People always say that you don't need to follow the rules in China (so many Chinese don't after all), and this is largely true, but this can all change if you happen to piss off the wrong person.

[889]

Reuters story on increasing arrests of foreigners teaching in China.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-education/class-dismissed-surge-in-arrests-of-foreign-teachers-in-china-idUSKCN1V2233

[Dawei3]

17 minutes ago, 889 said:

foreigners teaching in China

Wow.  What an article.....  Teacher or other profession, this article shows the need to be careful.  

[DavyJonesLocker]

@谢恩灵

 

Any progress? 

[889]

It's sometimes easy to forget this is a very public forum, not just some friends chatting in a closed room.

[ChTTay]

Seems like a sensationalist story 

[mungouk]

13 minutes ago, ChTTay said:

Seems like a sensationalist story 

 

Certainly the last paragraph does (quoting a lawyer in Seattle):
 

Quote

“What has changed is that many government officials think that kicking out Western influences like English teachers is doing the Party’s work, and the schools are taking advantage of it” said Harris, the Seattle lawyer, who now advises against foreigners teaching in China. “The risks of going to China to teach far outweigh the rewards.”

 

Well maybe if you're working illegally, or you're a card-carrying stoner with plenty of testable hair, then maybe the stakes are getting higher, but that last sentence (my emphasis) is a bit silly.

 

It would be useful for a sensible journalist to unpick this a bit... for example are they only targeting foreign workers from the US, Canada, Sweden and wherever else PRC is currently more upset with than everyone else?

 

And why would schools want to start kicking out competent foreign teachers when they are generally part of their value proposition?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[谢恩灵]

@DavyJonesLocker Well, I had a friend who committed the same crime and got the same punishment as I did. She was able to get a visa and return to China! She didn't even mention anything about the crime on her application