Illegally working in China...

[ChTTay]

There’s always a friend. 

[重大雷雨]

The increasingly hostile attitude towards western foreigners should not be minimized.  It is a concern.  The country has taken a hard authoritarian turn under the current president.  It is not nearly as safe or open for westerners as it was five to ten years ago.  Many of the arrests appear to be politically motivated retaliation or simply flexing the muscle of the party.  They can find a reason to arrest you if they want.  Drug test results and claims do not need to be independently verified.

 

It makes me sad.  The time when teaching in China and learning the language is a fun and worthwhile endeavor may be past.

 

I guess there was a time when Japanese was useful and before that, a time when French was useful and before that, a time when Latin was useful.

 

Where do we go next?  India?  Brazil?  

[DavyJonesLocker]

1 hour ago, 重大雷雨 said:

The increasingly hostile attitude towards western foreigners should not be minimized.  It is a concern.  The country has taken a hard authoritarian turn under the current president.  It is not nearly as safe or open for westerners as it was five to ten years ago.  Many of the arrests appear to be politically motivated retaliation or simply flexing the muscle of the party.  They can find a reason to arrest you if they want.  Drug test results and claims do not need to be independently verified.

 

It makes me sad.  The time when teaching in China and learning the language is a fun and worthwhile endeavor may be past.

 

I guess there was a time when Japanese was useful and before that, a time when French was useful and before that, a time when Latin was useful.

 

Where do we go next?  India?  Brazil?  

 

 

I'd disagreewith this, China are taking filtering out the undesireable foreigners . I was briefly involved in this. The motivation at the CPC level is get more higher grade foreigners in china who will respect the country and its policy's. A kind of of Credit system is being worked though . (Credit as in the character of the foreigner , not the financial kind). They have this already with the 3 categories of working visa (A, B, C). Cat A doesn't need to provide a police report, do not learn the country to apply,  open for much longer term visa and process quicker and less procedures. English teachers need to be qualified and native speakers . 

 

I was asked to write a report on what I thought of foreigners in china and after a lot of consideration I replied that they do need to remove the trash, the fact is that there are/were a lot of foreign people here who add no benefit to the country whatsoever. Too many people working illegally, won't integrate, won't learn Chinese, deride Chinese and their culture non stop on wechat, maintain this air of superiority all the time , drink and drive, do drugs, over stay visas, walk away from employment contracts whenever it suits, get girls pregnant and leave,  pass themselves of "English teachers" when there only qualification is round eyes. Many chinese secretly do not have a high opinion of English language teachers, This is very unfair to the good ones who take their job seriously  and have integrety

 

The problem is that the vast majority of foreigners here which are the "good folks" are mixed in with the bad ones so we all get branded as rotten laowai . The government should remove these bad apples, I 100% welcome the approach! Wish they would take this approach be more strict in Europe!

 

as for arrests I think apart from high profile politicaly motivated cases, the average foreigner in china has nothing to worry about. Obide by the rules, register, follow the procedures and especially keep your political opinions to yourself. I take the view that Foreigners are guests in the country so one should behave like it. I see already how many people are becoming very vocal about the HK situation in support of HK posting things on wechat. Not a smart move . 

[重大雷雨]

17 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I'd disagreewith this, China are taking filtering out the undesireable foreigners . I was briefly involved in this. The motivation at the CPC level is get more higher grade foreigners in china who will respect the country and its policy's. A kind of of Credit system is being worked though . (Credit as in the character of the foreigner , not the financial kind). They have this already with the 3 categories of working visa (A, B, C). Cat A doesn't need to provide a police report, do not learn the country to apply,  open for much longer term visa and process quicker and less procedures. English teachers need to be qualified and native speakers . 

 

I was asked to write a report on what I thought of foreigners in china and after a lot of consideration I replied that they do need to remove the trash, the fact is that there are/were a lot of foreign people here who add no benefit to the country whatsoever. Too many people working illegally, won't integrate, won't learn Chinese, deride Chinese and their culture non stop on wechat, maintain this air of superiority all the time , drink and drive, do drugs, over stay visas, walk away from employment contracts whenever it suits, get girls pregnant and leave,  pass themselves of "English teachers" when there only qualification is round eyes. Many chinese secretly do not have a high opinion of English language teachers, This is very unfair to the good ones who take their job seriously  and have integrety

 

The problem is that the vast majority of foreigners here which are the "good folks" are mixed in with the bad ones so we all get branded as rotten laowai . The government should remove these bad apples, I 100% welcome the approach! Wish they would take this approach be more strict in Europe!

 

as for arrests I think apart from high profile politicaly motivated cases, the average foreigner in china has nothing to worry about. Obide by the rules, register, follow the procedures and especially keep your political opinions to yourself. I take the view that Foreigners are guests in the country so one should behave like it. I see already how many people are becoming very vocal about the HK situation in support of HK posting things on wechat. Not a smart move . 

 

I haven't been in China for a few years and I know many people who have gone there with the intention of partying for a few years, then leaving.  I agree that if you plan on spending more than a small amount of time there, you should assimilate, obey the laws, conform to local culture etc.  Protesting in HK would not be a wise or morally correct thing to do;  That would be akin to trying to force your beliefs on the people of another nation. The Chinese people in general have been very accepting of foreigners, but the tensions with several western nations and the official state media response is now making me uneasy.  I have also been hearing about more regular, low-profile people running into problems for no apparent reason.

 

It is now so common in western countries to see foreigners who overstay visas, refuse to speak the language, refuse to assimilate, deride the locals and their culture, work illegally, drink and drive, traffic drugs, freeload off the government, take advantage of women etc. that many westerners may think they can do it in other countries.  On the other hand, maybe the Chinese government has seen what is happening in the west and wants to stamp out the problem before it becomes a crisis in China too.

[DavyJonesLocker]

I can imagine that business people especially Canadians and Americans might run into  issues and a lot more red tape , also I daresay obtaining a visa might be more difficult. However it's important to drawn the line between criminal activity and political disputes. 

 

Maybe there are polically motivated arrests but at the Average Joe level I'd say your passport is near irrelevant to the probably of being arrested. 

 

[mackie1402]

20 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

The problem is that the vast majority of foreigners here which are the "good folks" are mixed in with the bad ones so we all get branded as rotten laowai . 

 

I meet quite a few foreigners in China who introduce themselves as import/exporters. After a while you soon learn that they are English teachers, too, but they don't like telling people that because of the reputation it brings. I'm all for people having a gap year and doing volunteer work or whatnot in China, even homestay is a cool idea, but when people come out to China to teach English with zero experience, expect a salary that doubles or triples the national average, then complains about having to work the whole day when "I've not got any classes between 1 and 3. Why can't I go home?!" , these are the people I can't wait to be removed. 

 

With my own kid on the way, it really opens your eyes about who could be teaching your kid in the future. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

agree, as long as people are upfront about it I really have no issues . It's the missrepresentation that I feel is unethical.

I often get asked to teach business English but I categorically state I am not trained as an English teacher. I can't certainly teach business via English. 

In fact there are quite a few  charlatans don't that job (teaching business) who have zero experience and knowledge. One of the problems is that is nigh on impossible to get qualified  people to the  job as the salaries are far too low. Why would anyone teach for 30k a month with no benefits, bonus health scheme when they can make 100k a month in a bank and twice that on a contract basis plus full benefits 

[Brian US]

I haven't been familiar with the English teaching scene in years, so is there still a huge disparity between pay in schools (legit vs freelance)?

 

Sure there are always exceptions, but 7+ years ago it seemed the legit schools that gave you a work visa paid under 8,000 rmb/mo, and freelancers (often working multiple places) easily brought in 15,000 rmb/mo. Yes, the full-time teachers on proper visas often received other benefits, but back then the freelance route making 2x-3x more was low-risk/high-return.

 

Yes, I met the career teachers with decent pay, but it always seemed like there were many more on student/tourist visas taking what they could get (mostly part-time teaching).

[重大雷雨]

The risk of arrest is still not severe and if it happens, it is likely just a 3 - 10 day detention.   Not something you want to deal with regardless. 

 

Where do I find these jobs you don't have to be qualified for?    I am getting pretty accustomed to the American job market where you have to show you have many years of experience and an MBA to get that 4kUSD a month entry level job, but at the same time you have to convince the hiring managers that you will not work particularly hard and will not threaten them with the potential skills to get promoted any earlier than 5 years after taking the job.

 

Maybe it is time to go back to China after all. 

[ChTTay]

Seems like dodgy agents still exist. You hear about them getting arrested every now and again for having unqualified people working as teachers on the wrong visa. 

 

@Brian US Most of the agency staff I met had terrible conditions and less pay. Maybe being a student working on the side still brings in a good wage though, I’m not sure. 

[Brian US]

4 hours ago, ChTTay said:

Most of the agency staff I met had terrible conditions and less pay. Maybe being a student working on the side still brings in a good wage though, I’m not sure. 

 

You had to disregard the many agents that tried for 100rmb an hour. Then mostly through word of mouth, you would find the 150-200rmb an hour places, picking up students on the side for 200+ an hour. Still wouldn't trust them, and you had to be prepared to leave if they stiffed you once. Working with friends made it a little more secure if you all threatened to leave at once.

 

Hours aren't steady, so it was just having side cash for students. Or so I hear from friends, I would have never risked teaching on a student visa...

 

 

[ChTTay]

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is still a market for student tutors as described above.