When you have a bad teacher

[suMMit]

What do you do when you have a lesson with a new/substitute teacher who is simply a bad teacher for you? Lets say he/she uses too much English, doesn't do anything other than say "make a sentence using xxx", read the dialog, etc. Of course you probably won't study with him/her again, but do you just suffer through the hour? Do you try to tell them what you want them to do? 

[歐博思]

Speak up or forever not get what you want.

[mungouk]

You're paying... if it's not working for you then yes, speak up.

 

Is this 1:1 or in a group class?  F2F or in person?  

 

If it was 1:1 and I was unhappy I would even be asking for a refund.

[Lu]

I'd certainly try asking for what I want, especially if it seems like a fairly easy fix, like using less English. You could even suggest exercises that work well with your regular, good teacher. Or ask her to pay special attention to things you know you get wrong. If you are still learning a little bit and the teacher is doing her best, I think I'd just sit it out and not ask for my money back, perhaps only ask the office to give me a different substitute next time.

[Shelley]

I would be inclined to ask them to follow the lesson plan your original teacher had for your class. But if its only one lesson I would just grin and bear it.

 

When I was a kid substitute teachers just really meant a free period and we would just do what we wanted till class was over. If it was a long term substitute then class would go on as it had withe regular teacher.

[PerpetualChange]

Not trying to blame the victim, but be careful about making your teacher too accountable for your success. Ultimately, you are the only one accountable. If you're meeting with someone for a few hours per week or less, it's unrealistic to expect them to cover everything and make you "good" or to have some innovative and highly specialized system designed around you. Correcting your sentences and pronunciation sounds like a pretty effective use of an hour if you've only got the tutor for an hour per week. If you're meeting daily for hours per day or something, I guess that's different, maybe I'd expect more, but if this is a college class the choice could be between accepting this teacher or dropping the class.

 

Just keep in mind, writing, speaking, listening, reading... you should be doing all this stuff every day, teacher or no teacher. Keep in mind I'm not saying your teacher isn't bad - maybe she's horrible - but it's always good to have measured expectations. If your teacher is giving you good information and not letting you commit errors, I would say that's good enough. The other things, like using too much English, or not having enough varied exercises - you oughtta be picking up some of that slack independently anyway. Having best teacher in the world would not really make much of a difference if you weren't spending far more than your classtime doing homework, language exchanges, reading/writing exercises, etc.

[Flickserve]

Using too much English is a tough one. I actually don't mind a bit of English but I agree that it might be tricky for the teacher to assess the student's learning style on one meeting, especially at lower levels of student ability.

 

I am inclined to redirect the learning style and mix Chinese with English. I will ask more complicated a more complicated English sentence and ask them to translate and practice that sentence. I don't use books very much so this approach works as a freestyle method.

[abcdefg]

19 hours ago, suMMit said:

Of course you probably won't study with him/her again, but do you just suffer through the hour? Do you try to tell them what you want them to do? 

 

I try to politely raise the issue of my expectations and guide the teacher. You never know whether or not you will wind up studying with that same teacher down the road again or not. 

 

Otherwise, it's like going in for a massage and not speaking up about whether you want it stronger, with more pressure, or gentler and milder. The masseur (and the teacher) cannot read your mind. 

[PerpetualChange]

7 hours ago, Flickserve said:

Using too much English is a tough one. I actually don't mind a bit of English but I agree that it might be tricky for the teacher to assess the student's learning style on one meeting, especially at lower levels of student ability.

 

I am inclined to redirect the learning style and mix Chinese with English. I will ask more complicated a more complicated English sentence and ask them to translate and practice that sentence. I don't use books very much so this approach works as a freestyle method.

 

My question is, why would someone want their Chinese teacher to not use any English? Is it because your Chinese is good enough to understand her Chinese explanations of nuanced concepts? Or is it just because it makes you feel like more immersed and you've done more work when you've had someone talk to you in half comprehensible Chinese for an hour?

 

The Chinese teacher is supposed to be making sure you understand concepts and directing your focus. Speaking actual Chinese is a vital part of that. But no need to get anxious if your Chinese teacher uses English - for that full immersion you may crave, why not try movies, music, language exchanges, etc?

[Flickserve]

11 hours ago, PerpetualChange said:

My question is, why would someone want their Chinese teacher to not use any English?

 

Actually, I agree with you. I don’t buy the concept of totally using chinese from day one. The amount of times I have heard Chinese explanations and it’s been way over my head is countless. I think a book helps if you are totally using chinese for something to latch on. 

[suMMit]

1 hour ago, PerpetualChange said:

My question is, why would someone want their Chinese teacher to not use any English? Is it because your Chinese is good enough to understand her Chinese explanations of nuanced concepts? Or is it just because it makes you feel like more immersed and you've done more work when you've had someone talk to you in half comprehensible Chinese for an hour?

 

The Chinese teacher is supposed to be making sure you understand concepts and directing your focus. Speaking actual Chinese is a vital part of that. But no need to get anxious if your Chinese teacher uses English - for that full immersion you may crave, why not try movies, music, language exchanges, etc?

 

Oh my. You and I think completely differently.

 

Yes, as a matter of fact I feel like I can completely get into it when the teacher does not speak English. I feel we're in a chinese environment and I can forget English and really focus on pronouncing, listening, thinking in chinese. All English does is distract me. Why do I need her to explain things to me? We work through a textbook, everything is explained in perfect English (as opposed to "Jian ee da meddeh wohd"). I can read and understand all of that in prep and post lesson. I want her there to model it for me, to use it and get me to use it with her together IN MANDARIN CHINESE. There are items in the book aimed at getting us to practice the material. She can help me say it smoother, notice if I get something wrong and correct me. I have 1hr a day with a live teacher 3 times a week - I require those three hours to be 95 percent Chinese. I wouldn't mind 99 percent. I can study "nuanced concepts" on my own. Maybe im not even at the level where the concepts are that nuanced. 

 

There was a time I required English help, it was the beginning when I learned pinyin and pronunciation. Then, yes, I want English "put you tongue high, more air". After those days, im done with English in a live one on one chinese lesson. 

[PerpetualChange]

@suMMit Please don't take offense, I don't know your level, my point was more along the lines of how much pressure you put on a Chinese teacher to create immersion for you, when you can also do that outside of the classroom. I've made the same mistake before myself. Anyway, it sounds like you have a good idea of what you want to get out of your lesson and should be able to talk to your teacher about it. 

[suMMit]

@PerpetualChange sure no offense taken. I'm Elementary level. Let me lay out an example:

 

Example 1, my normal teacher, whose style I love:

 

(textbook) 12. 商场 shang chang - shopping mall

 

Teacher: xia yi ge, shi er, ni shuo

me: shang chang (glance at book to remember the English if needed)

Teacher: shang chang mai shen me de?

me: shang chang mai yi fu, xi yi ji, en... hen duo dong xi

Teacher: shang chang bi shang dian da ma?

me: shang chang bi shang dian da

teacher: ni jia fu jin you shang chang ma?

me: wo de Jia Fu jin you liang ge shang chang

teacher: liang JIA shang chang

me: hao de. wo de Jia Fu jin you liang jia shang chang

teacher:  shang chang li ni de jia duo yuan?

Me: Yao 10 fen zhong zuo you

teacher: ni tong chang qv shang chang ma?

me: wo tong chang qv shang chang

Teacher: Ni yi ge ren qv hai shi gen ni qi zi yi qi qv?

me: qi zi shi shen me

Teacher: qi zi shi tai tai. Ni ming bai ma?

me: ming bai, xie xie. 

 

Teacher 

 

Example 2, another teacher:

 

teacher: ok, xia yi ge, next one

Teacher: Shang chang shi shopping mall. Ni zhi Dao ma? 

Me: wo chi dao

Teacher: shang chang

me: shang chang

Teacher: shang chang ni you wen ti ma?

Me: Mei

teacher: shang chang uses the medah wohd JIA, ok? not "yi ge" shang chang. one sopping moah. ok?

Me: um, ok

teacher: gei wo ji jv use shang chang, can you make sentence with shang chang?

me: (begrudgingly) Wo xi huan shang chang

Teacher: hen hao. ni you went ma? 

me: Mei you wenti

teacher: hao. xia yi ge, NEXT ONE

Me: (middle finger under desk)

 

Believe me, I've had many cases of the second type. more than I've had of the first type. I can usually study with my normal teacher , but sometimes our schedules don't align and I have to select another teacher. I keep notes on which teachers I like and don't like. But its very hard for me to tell them what I want them to do if I don't like their method, so I just grin and bare it.

 

 

 

 

[suMMit]

38 minutes ago, Flickserve said:

The amount of times I have heard Chinese explanations and it’s been way over my head is countless

I agree with this too. I simply don't want explanations. anything other than the quickest of explanations. usually a correction is fine and I never ask why. I just look it up later if I want to know why. I can read explanations on my own from a dozen sources.

[PerpetualChange]

Yeah man, if your Chinese teacher can't even commit to doing some kind of role play or Q&A in Chinese with you... sorry, that must be so challenging, hopefully you can find a better teacher soon. 

[Flickserve]

10 hours ago, suMMit said:

Believe me, I've had many cases of the second type. more than I've had of the first type.

 

 

That's frustrating and I haven't had too many of those. Now, why haven't I experienced too many of those....?

 

Firstly, I use a lot of community teachers on italki. I have only used a couple of professional teachers and their English was not good (=good for me)

Second, I really worked on my pronunciation, tones, pinyin and intonation at the start of learning. It makes the teacher think I know more than I really do and they use more chinese with me.

Three, I am a heritage speaker so there's a definite visual bias

[Weyland]

1 minute ago, Flickserve said:

I am a heritage speaker ...

Can I get a more direct meaning of what a heritage speaker is? Does it merely mean that you look Chinese? (华裔/华侨/华人等等）What I know from my fellow (Asian-appearance) language learners is that natives tend to be a lot stricter with them. Whereas they're quick to compliment me for the slightest use of Chinese, and actively disregard me whenever I tell them that my Chinese has much room for improvement.

--- 

As to the rest of the discussion. Personally I haven't had a single Chinese teacher I paid for. I tried attending a university, but its practices were corrupt and the lessons were both slow and mundane without the possibility to fast-track the courses that I've found myself relying on friends instead of learning institutions. The problem is that once my friends start to see improvements in my use of Chinese they start being lenient, too lenient.

[Flickserve]

2 hours ago, Weyland said:

Can I get a more direct meaning of what a heritage speaker is? Does it merely mean that you look Chinese? (华裔/华侨/华人等等）What I know from my fellow (Asian-appearance) language learners is that natives tend to be a lot stricter with them. Whereas they're quick to compliment me for the slightest use of Chinese, and actively disregard me whenever I tell them that my Chinese has much room for improvement.

 

Yes. Chinese but didn't learn when growing up and had no exposure to mandarin.

 

I first learnt mandarin pronunciation over the skype without visual and the teacher was very strict. However, I was quite tenacious as I had read on this forum you need to nail the pronunciation early in the learning process. I try to learn by conversation rather than reading, When I speak on hellotalk (which is usually voice messages), I actually haven't stated beforehand I am chinese (to avoid the erroneously assumed genetic talent) though i will say so during the course of a conversation if appropriate. To be honest, I get the same compliments as well with people saying my pronunciation is fairly standard. I know it's not perfect and not as good as some people who post sample recordings here. However, I can correct it pretty quickly once I hear someone and can tune into the frequency.

[suMMit]

I suspect some of them want to use their English.

[abcdefg]

14 hours ago, suMMit said:

 But its very hard for me to tell them what I want them to do if I don't like their method, so I just grin and bare it.

 

I would respectfully suggest spending considerable effort refining your ability to tell them clearly what you want them to do. It's extremely important. Teachers cannot read your mind. 

 

The issue of "how to coach your teacher" will come up over and over as you study Chinese, especially if you are doing it in China. It's an essential skill, in my opinion. 

 

When you go to a Western restaurant do you leave it up to the kitchen to decide how your steak should be cooked?