No one speaks standard Mandarin unless...

[Flickserve]

Picked up this comment from a wechat group.

 

除了专业的，一般没人说很正规的普通话

 

Is it unreasonable to learn about other chinese accents? After all, many people learn American accent English in preference to received pronunciation accent  English. Many Chinese people I have spoken to say it is easier to learn American accent English.

 

Professionals means those working in media.

 

 

[PerpetualChange]

The difference is that, as a natural language, there's no standard by which we evaluate our language. Aside from some tests designed for ESL students, there's just a fuzzy sense of "you either got it or you don't".

 

For Chinese, there is that standard. No matter what region you are from or what your local language is, there is a standard Mandarin that you are taught, and it is the same standard Putonghua that every speaker is evaluated against. When you study standard Mandarin, you will also develop your own accent and regionalisms, as an foreigner studying Chinese. Once you develop a good foundation in standard Putonghua, it makes sense to learn some regional variations, as learning different words that other regions use as opposed to the standard ones will be part of your overall comprehension of the language. Or, if you wind up living or working in a specific area of China, you may wind up picking up their regionalisms anyway.

 

To learn something other than standard Mandarin right off the bat, though? You're just layering someone elses regional shortcomings over the ones you will naturally have as Foreigner studying Chinese. Before you spend a ton of time learning words that only a small percentage of Chinese say, you should be focused on the worlds that everyone will understand. Graded readers I have seem to start gradually introducing colloquialisms in texts designed for HSK3/4 students. I would say that's about right. Until you have a solid foundation in standard Putonghua, there's no reason introduce bunch of colloquialisms into your study, unless your goal is to live and work in that specific region of China, confuse Chinese speakers you are talking to, or both

[suMMit]

Ive heard very few chinese people with an american accent. usually they simply have a "chinese" accent.

 

Sounds like you and i should swap cities! I always love hearing the more standard mandarin when i travel north, compared to the mandarin in GZ. I was talking to a guy from Changchun on the train the other day and it sounded so pleasant, like it was straight out of my textbook. If I could sound like anyone, it would be the north/northeast accent. I think 山东 sounds particularly nice.

 

I guess accent is very personal. Why not focus  the accent you like

[Flickserve]

@suMMit

 

We can't swop. I am in Hong Kong and it's worse than GZ for Mandarin. I want to be familiar with that northern twang, how people in the north change their speech away from standard Mandarin. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

It's an interesting topic. A way back at the start a few Chinese  friends who let's say "don't hold back on their observations" told me I speak like a girl or a  effeminate Taiwanese man . They said you sound weird and doesn't suit my image. 

 

I didnt understand what this derisory Taiwanese comment was about, nor why their opinions were so strong, but I did wondered where this was coming from. Over the years I realised it was coming for my softly spoken gentle  female teachers and the god awful text books seemed to be written by a love sick 14yo girl.

 

In contrast my female friends  are rough old birds (by their admittance,  ha-ha) . I get told to stop using certain words which just don't suit my image and persona. Perhaps I'm more suited to the middle aged Beijinger guy with the Beijing bikini ?

 

I don't really have a good feel for "how" I speak but over the years it has certainly changed due to mixing with the locals.

I guess it's a bit like a western man saying ups-a-daisy, splendid, beastly , gosh darn etc . Might suit hugh grant but not really Danny Trejo or ememin lyrics

 

Joking aside I think it is important that teachers do point this out along with regional accents, local lingo as language is not just a string of words put together to communicate like a computered generated voice. The accent you use and style of language can be welcoming or off-putting too.

 

 

[Lu]

13 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I didnt understand what this derisory Taiwanese comment was about

Regular Taiwanese Mandarin sounds girly/effeminate to (Northern) Chinese. The accent just has that kind of association, even though Taiwanese men are just as macho as Chinese men.

[DavyJonesLocker]

10 hours ago, Lu said:

Regular Taiwanese Mandarin sounds girly/effeminate to (Northern) Chinese. The accent just has that kind of association, even though Taiwanese men are just as macho as Chinese men.

 

thanks I was wondering what the motivation behind it was. i.e. cultural or political or perhaps that it just sounds feminine to Northern Chinese ears. Given I can barely tell any difference I had no opinion on the subject. Personally I don't like the Beijing erhua accent but inevitable picked it up

 

I guess it's a bit like some English guys mocking French about the way their language seems to them, however a lot of that is based of cultural and historical differences and to some extend animosity.  

[Weyland]

 

On 9/23/2019 at 1:13 AM, Flickserve said:

Is it unreasonable to learn about other chinese accents?

How is this thread any different from the "Chinese learners are forced into a standard box" you made a few days ago?
 

1. If you want to learn a certain accent; go ahead. 
2. If you don't want your/a teacher correcting you on your Chinese pronunciation because you want to speak in a certain accent; find a teacher that suits you.
3. If you don't like people telling you that you should improve/focus on your standard Mandarin; suck it up, there will always be people like that. 
4. If you don't like China's focus on standardizing their language and would rather see a relaxation in standards; you're out of luck. 
5. If you are having trouble getting your friends to teach your their accent/slang; improve your Chinese, as it seems that you're still unable to convince them of your point of view. 
6. If you want to be different, be different. If you can't stand people's scrutiny while you're trying to be different; stop being different.

Personally, I really appreciate it when people adjust the way they speak whether it be for clarity or just sheer simplification. Standards, whether in speech or trade, are there to facilitate the movement of goods or ideas. When you're dealing with a multitude of backgrounds and environments it helps to have a constant; a standard. That's why we have a Lingua franca and that's why every country has an official standardized language. Is everyone expected to speak standardized "insert language"? Answer; only when practical. Someone moving bricks isn't expected to speak the queen's English. 

But, people assume that the reason YOU are learning Chinese is because you want to communicate with the Chinese people as a whole, not just a specific subset of them. As such teachers will adhere to a standard, as they want to make sure that in future you are able to convey your thoughts without any inhibitions. And that's also why your friends might shy away from teaching their own dialect/accent as it might be a burden you're not yet able to carry.

[道艺]

Is it hard for you to find northerners where you are? Why don't you just start chatting one up? 

[道艺]

I live in SH, but one of my colleagues is northern. When we first started speaking, his Chinese sounded as polished as they come, but as I've been improving, I've noticed he's (knowingly or not) loosened up and let his 'accent' slip out here and there. 

 

你要我给你打印几份儿？