Visa extension trouble

[benjo]

I am in China on a 90 day L visa and wanted to get an additional 90 day extension and conversion to an F. I called one of the numbers in a classified ad on www.thatsbj.com, and met with the guy. He was 'general manager' of the company (which wasn't an actual visa agency, according to their website) and said he had helped another American get an extension last week. Everything seemed legit to me, so I gave him my passport and 1200RMB, and he told me the visa would be ready in a week.

A week goes by, no word from him, so I give him a call. He tells me, the visa will be ready by Monday, but the Police Station made it a 6 month visa, instead of 3 months. They wanted an additional 3000RMB, but the guy 'negotiated' it down to 1100RMB. So he says he'll call me next week, and bring another 1100RMB with me.

I'm too stunned to say anything initially, but then I just say, yeah, sure, fine, to get off the phone, and think about what he just told me first. Of course, this guy is trying to swindle me. What can I do about it? Not pay? Then I'd never see my passport again. Would going to the police be an option?

[roddy]

Ouch.

This is a really tricky situation and I'm not sure what I would do in the circumstances. My gut reaction would probably be to pay up and put it down to experience. You could refuse to pay when you meet and demand your passport / threaten him with the police, but if he refuses there's not much you can do beyond having a bunch of mates handy to threaten him.

Police would probably be interested, but unless you have an address / company name, what are they going to do, short of coming with you to meet him? Even if you get your passport back, you're still short a visa. If you do wind up contacting the police, then making your embassy aware of the situation may help a little - they won't be very sympathetic though.

I think in this situation I'd swallow my pride, pay up, get my passport and then warn everyone to stay away from this guy. Contacting thatsbj may get his ads deleted, although I wouldn't bet on it.

Good luck.

[trevelyan]

Personally, I'd figure out what the actual cost of the 6 month visa is for them and then try to haggle. If the guy is too obstinate though, I'd ask for my passport back and tell him I'm not interested in his services. If he refuses to give it back he is committing a fairly serious crime -- you would need to report the theft to your embassy, at which point things get fairly serious. Regardless, bring a credible third party to your second meeting with this guy so that any problems don't end up as a "he-said/she-said".

If you can get your passport back but without a visa... you have options besides using agencies. The overnight express train from Beijing to Kowloon will get you out of the country in less than 24 hours (tickets are booked in a separate office on the second floor of Beijing Railway Station West). It leaves every 2nd day and dumps you in downtown Kowloon at noon -- really convenient as you can do the paperwork for the visa the same day you arrive. There is a place that will change RMB into HKD for you at the train station so all you need currency-wise is RMB, and there are tons of indepedent places near Jordan Station where you can haggle for better rates. (that district also has a bunch of places tourist agencies advertising visas).

When I went down I stayed at the following hostel, on recommendation from Roddy. Its a decent place. Dorm beds run for 150 HKD/night, rooms for around 300, depending on how long you stay and if you book in advance. I'd recommend booking in advance just so you don't find yourself without a place to stay, and having to pay more exorbitant rates finding a room at the last minute:

http://www.rentaroomhk.com/

The hard sleeper ticket one-way costs about 600 RMB. Before you exit the train station in Hong Kong, you should see a counter that belongs to the China Travel Bureau (literally right ahead of you when you pass through customs). They can give you a new travel visa, and claimed to be able to do it in about an hour when I spoke with them about three weeks ago (not sure if they can handle F or Z visas however). If not get on the subway, travel to "Wan Chai" station and take a 15 HKD taxi to the China Visa Office on Harbour Road. Put in an application for a visa and get it handled as a rush job (+150 HKD) so you can pick it up the following morning.

Depending on how long you stay in Hong Kong, and assuming you take the train back as well, you've got a pretty low-cost way to turnover a visa which doesn't leave you open to this sort of abuse. That being said, Hong Kong can be an expensive city if you have to stay there a while, and I would want to have at least 6000 RMB on hand in case of difficulties.

[maybedaisy]

remember the way to contact him and call 110 for police.

[speedmonk]

There is another thing to consider, is that whatever VISA you get from this is even REAL.

You could end up getting VERY screwed.

Buy your passport back, cause that is what you are doing and walk away.

Does this guy have an office? Who what is he?

NEVER give someone your passport unless it is an official government VISA/Embassy office. Even at these you sometimes have to 'buy' your passport back in some places.

I really doubt that you can even get an "F" Visa without written admission papers with an approved school. Do you have those? Does he have those?

[roddy]

A few notes on F visas - this is just what I know, it's not recommendations, or guaranteed to be correct. I've never actually got or renewed an F-visa in Beijing, and this is just hearsay and second-hand info gathered over the years. Your passport, your risk.

For at least the last three or four years (which is just how long I've been in Beijing) it's been possible to get / extend an F visa through agencies in Beijing. It's expensive, and I've heard of people having problems with it, but it can be done.

There seems to be two ways it is done.

1) The agency is / has connections with a company which is authorised to issue invitation letters for F visas. When you pay the cash they issue / get the invitation letter, take your passport to the PSB, get the F visa and give you your passport back. A friend of mine used an agency like this previously, they had an office, business / tax registration certificates on the wall and plenty of regular customers. They were using the PSB at Yonghegong in Beijing - I know this as they'd forgotten to rush process the visa as requested, and when we turned up they sent someone down on a scooter to go and pick it up. This was a couple of years ago now and I don't have the company's info, but they used to advertise in Thats Beijing and the name Xihua rings a bell. This is not completely legitimate, as the letter of invitation is inaccurate - you have no connection with the company at all. It is however less dodgy than . . .

2) Agencies who have connections with 'flexible' PSB offices outside of Beijing, and will send your passport there to have an F-visa pasted in. I know of at least one guy (a member on here, perhaps he can fill in some details) who has had the PSB turn up at his door after his passport was found in the desk drawer of a PSB officer busted for corruption somewhere outside of Beijing, and have also heard of significant delays in getting passports back. This route seems to be more problematic than the first, as a) you are dealing with a different level of illegitimacy - actual corruption rather than abuse of a privilige, if you like - and B) your passport may well need to go to the other side of the country and back.

If you are thinking about dealing with an agency, then make every effort to

1) Get a personal recommendation from someone else

2) Find an agency with an office, not just a guy with a phone

Roddy

[roddy]

Benjo, any chance you can let us know what happened with this?

[benjo]

Well, I told the guy there was no way I was going to pay for a 6 month visa, when I only wanted 3 months. He was silent for a few minutes, then offered to cut the 1100 in half to 550. I reluctantly agreed. I had gone in with the mindset that I wasn't going to give this guy any more money. I hadn't even brought my wallet with me. But he said that was no problem, I could come back tomorrow, which I did. So, I finally got my passport/visa back. I'm still not sure whether this guy deliberately tried to screw me over, or was being screwed over by the corrupt PSB. Either way, I'm glad it's done with.