北京还是上海？

[DavyJonesLocker]

27 minutes ago, 889 said:

Because Shanghai is south of the Yangtze, historically buildings don't have central heating and can be damp, chilly and uncomfortable in winter. 

 

I hear a lot of chinese people tell me that  they are cold in winter. 

 I'm always puzzled and think "er .... can't you not just buy an electric / gas /heater oil filter portable radiator " It's the way I  grew up.  Is it just too costly for the average folk?  

 

My friend warns me about this in considering whether to take a job in Shanghai. I told her it's not even a consideration . 

 

Depends on affordability I suppose but I wonder how much Kuai we are talking about.

 

[anonymoose]

7 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

can't you not just buy an electric / gas /heater oil filter portable radiator

 

You can, but why would you do that when an air conditioning unit is much cheaper to run?

[889]

A heater also takes up space in a small flat, where do you put it the rest of the year, and if the are children around there may be safety concerns. Besides, if you're going to have an A/C unit anyway for cooling, it's not that much more to get one that also includes a heating function. Of course in really cold areas, a dual A/C unit may not be sufficient. But it's perfect for a place like Shanghai.

[DavyJonesLocker]

13 minutes ago, anonymoose said:

You can, but why would you do that when an air conditioning unit is much cheaper to run?

 

as a heater? i would have thought it would be quite inefficient actually given its not its primary purpose. For example according to the some UK energy saving websites the oil filled heaters are often cheaper than air heaters.

 

2 minutes ago, 889 said:

A heater also takes up space in a small flat, where do you put it the rest of the year, and if the are children around there may be safety concerns.

 

never seemed to be an issue away back when i was growing up. Every house on the street had a two bar electric far, bottle gas superser and a portable rad. However i take your point of having a 2 in one function for an air conditioning unit.  

 

Although I still never understood the argument of the "south is cold in winter and it need to be taken into account if you wish to live there", we are not talking Haerbin style weather. I have seen people mention it on here too! Just seems like a trivial issue to me. Different mindset perhaps.  

 

[889]

". . . never seemed to be an issue away back when i was growing up."

 

You grew up in a 600 sq ft flat in a Chinese high-rise? With no garage, cellar, attic or shed out back to store stuff?

[anonymoose]

3 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

eas a heater? i would have thought it would be quite inefficient actually given its not its primary purpose. For example according to the some UK energy saving websites the oil filled heaters are often cheaper than air heaters.

 

How do you define efficiency? An oil heater essentially turns 100% of the electricity used into heat. An air conditioning unit uses the energy to suck heat from outside, so not only does the electricity get turned into heat, but you get the addition of the heat sucked from outside.

 

But as these machines cost quite a lot to purchase, and installation involves drilling a hole several centimetres across in the wall for the air inlet/outlet, it is not the kind if thing to arrange if you are just renting a place short-term. Nevertheless, the vast majority of apartments in Shanghai have these now.

[DavyJonesLocker]

3 minutes ago, anonymoose said:

How do you define efficiency? An oil heater essentially turns 100% of the electricity used into heat. An air conditioning unit uses the energy to suck heat from outside, so not only does the electricity get turned into heat, but you get the addition of the heat sucked from outside.

 

But as these machines cost quite a lot to purchase, and installation involves drilling a hold several centimetres across in the wall for the air inlet/outlet, it is not the kind if thing to arrange if you are just renting a place short-term. Nevertheless, the vast majority of apartments in Shanghai have these now.

 

I mean for heating purposes, just something i remember googling before living in london (portable air heater v portable oil filled radiator), different city, different climate though, different appartment. I presume a built-in air conditioning unit (on the heating setting) is just recycling and reheating the air inside the room. Wouldn't make sense to such in super cold air and heat it up.

 

I mean the 2KW oil filled radiators (4 wheel portable ones) are cheap as chips (50quid upwards in UK) A load of people still use them there. They nearly all come with timers and thermostats now. Easy option for folks down south china in winter i would have thought

[Flickserve]

3 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

Although I still never understood the argument of the "south is cold in winter and it need to be taken into account if you wish to live there", we are not talking Haerbin style weather. I have seen people mention it on here too! Just seems like a trivial issue to me. Different mindset perhaps.  

 

It’s because the flats are not designed to keep heat in. Even if the temperature is about ten degrees outside, the heat inside your flat is lost very quickly. There are no radiators, no carpet, double glazing. I think if you are moving from warm interiors to outside like in north China or UK in the winter, you don’t feel it as much. It does sounds a bit strange but Beijing was comfortable when I visited in winter whereas HK is uncomfortably cold, but luckily for only three weeks of the year. 

[889]

You also have concrete structures that seem to hold damp and chill exceedingly well.  Just not like living in a single-family residence.

[anonymoose]

6 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

Wouldn't make sense to such in super cold air and heat it up.

 

It doesn't suck in the cold air. It sucks in the heat, and via a heat exchange, transfers that to the air in the building, whilst ejecting even colder air outside.

[Brian US]

Shanghai has grown on me over the last year since I can take a high speed rail and get there in 3 hours. After living in Beijing for 5 years, I feel both cities will give you whatever you are looking for be it study, work, and leisure time. I think the biggest differences will be weather, and what places you'd hope to visit on a less than 3 hour train ride (if you want to get away for the weekend).

 

I found Beijing was so big without much around it that I would never leave the city. I think at one point I realized outside of a flight back to the US, I had essentially never left the city of Beijing for over a year. Which sounds strange to me since I'd never expect that say living in Chicago or NYC.

[ChTTay]

@mungouk You mentioned having people switch to English when you try use Chinese but later on mention not really interacting with locals in Beijing. I’ve found people I interact with on a daily basis in Beijing to generally have little to no English (or if they do, they won’t use it). This hasn’t improved much over the past 8 years. I’m mostly talking about the service sector or tourism infrastructure. I guess if you go to a cafe they generally know what you mean if you say latte these days. In Starbucks you do encounter the odd barrister with a bit of work-based English. Funnily enough my parents visited a cafe while here in Lido. They managed to communicate latte but the wait staff were lost after that. Asking my parents about iced or hot took about 3-4 minutes of gesturing. Think they just got some ice in the end to show them. 

 

Not sure heating would influence my decision on a city honestly. 

 

Personally I prefer Beijing over Shanghai but I wouldn’t be opposed to living in Shanghai for a while. It’s interesting someone mentioned hipsters in Beijing. I found Shanghai to have a lot more posers. Both foreign and Chinese. both cities have great things about them. I do enjoy the history and culture side of Beijing but actually rarely take advantage of major “sights” due to the number of tourists. It’s funny that amongst Chinese people Beijingers and “people in Beijing” are renowned as being very friendly. For a long time I thought that was crazy but actually now I do feel there is a friendliness to the city once you scratch beyond the surface. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

Of course another aspect is where you live in the city. There can be some pretty grim and cool places in both cities. When I moved flat two years ago I really scoured Beijing to find a place I was happy with and luckily by chance came across a district past the fifth ring road. 

 

However the vast majority is just dull grey areas with little or no greenery  . 

Shanghai is probably better for than given everything doesn't have to be watered like in Beijing. 

 

Edit: for language purposes I think your attitude to learning is most important. After several years here I am 100% convinced that the optimal way to improve speaking is only communicate people who don't speak a lick of English. You have to be pretty brutal about and may cause offence . I won't go out with anyone who speaks English to me or keeps doing this somewhat irritating  half E - half C conversation. 

[道艺]

1 hour ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

You have to be pretty brutal about and may cause offence .

lol, this rings true for me at the workplace. Most staff admit to either not being able to speak English, finding it too much of a hassle, or find it less efficient that just speaking Chinese with me. Then there are a handful who's English is far superior than my Chinese, and we'll use whichever language is most effecient for the task. Then there are the select few who speak a broken English, but are as persistent as I am. One of them happens to be one of the 校长. This is a brand new school and this is her first year moving up from a general teacher, and I can tell it really drives her mad when I reply to her English in Chinese. My guess is she really wants to have this appearance of superiority over the foreign department to justify her being in the position.  I'm curious how long this game of chicken will go on, because I'm not planning to back down any time soon! ?