Here it comes: WeChat Pay and Alipay for foreigners

[mungouk]

Guideinchina reports that WeChat pay is trialling a collaboration with Visa, Mastercard and AmEx, which would allow foreigners without a Chinese UnionPay card to finally pay for stuff without having a local bank account.

 

Meanwhile The Beijinger also reports that the international version of the Alipay APP is now able to use the "Tour Pass" mini-program to pay for stuff via a "prepaid card service provided by the Bank of Shanghai" that can be topped up in RMB using an international credit or debit card.

 

 

 

 

[889]

Wechat has been claiming they have something that works -- but doesn't -- for a couple years now. Too early to put any faith in their claims they're serious this time, "really we are." They have a truly bad track record to overcome.

 

Apparently some people have gotten the Alipay Tourist Pass to work. There's a 5 percent fee from January 1.

 

 

[mungouk]

1 minute ago, 889 said:

They have a truly bad track record to overcome.

 

Well, if Alipay gets the lead on this then WeChat will lose out enormously.  Quite an incentive to get it right, quickly.  But as you suggest... believe it when you see it.

 

2 minutes ago, 889 said:

Alipay Tourist Pass [...] There's a 5 percent fee from January 1.

 

I wonder how many foreign tourists realise that — when they can finally find somewhere that will take their Visa card — they will get a terrible exchange rate and then probably 11% added on top?  (Check your receipt!)

Suddenly 5% sounds pretty good, considering 4% is a typical credit card surcharge.  (Unless it's 5% on top of 4%?)

 

 

[889]

No, as I understand it, Alipay will charge you 5 percent then you will also pay whatever your bank charges if any for foreign currency charges on your card, often 2 to 3 percent. At least this is the way it works when you use a foreign credit card to pay for Taobao purchases on Alipay, though the Alipay fee is less in this case, about 3 percent I recall.

[Flickserve]

The Alipay system has also been reported in SCMP.

 

for me in HK, I can now use Alipay in China if I open a Bank of China account in China. For that I supply certain documents which get sent to China and then 3 weeks later, with a mainland China phone number I can use Alipay. Trouble is, I don’t go into mainland China very often to justify the cost of a new SIM card. Or perhaps I should turn it into an advantage and say to myself, because I can use Alipay, I should make the best of the opportunity and go into mainland China more often.....

[889]

A pay-as-you-go Mainland number isn't that expensive, maybe 18RMB/month max basic fee, maybe cheaper. With that number you can receive SMSs free outside the Mainland, so you can buy stuff online, like train tickets on 12306. Or shop on Taobao and pick your stuff up at a convenience store in Shenzhen. (JD.com of course doesn't accept Alipay.)

 

I thought that that special HK BOC account linking with Mainland Alipay requires a HRP. Yes?

[Flickserve]

I'm resident in Hong Kong so I think I would have to get through a Hong Kong carrier. Usually the plans in Hong Kong are hkd 100 and above but I haven't done a thorough search yet. Thanks for that information. It's pretty useful.

 

You are quite right about the HRP. Yes, I have one of those. Forgot to mention that.

[889]

No, you can head up to Shenzhen and get a Mainland SIM with either your passport or HRP, depending on how you enter China. No hassle, unlike opening a bank account. But head to a customer service centre, not one of the small shops. Just make sure the SIM is compatible with your phone: Unicom almost always is, and China Mobile probably is.

 

Then from Hong Kong you can use your Alipay account to recharge the SIM, buy data, etc.

 

Working through Mainland sites like Taobao is a great way to improve your practical Chinese. Like scanning the QR code on a restaurant table with Alipay and then ordering and paying from the app.

 

[Flickserve]

Oh really? Awesome. Thanks for that info. I have dual sim phone that would work really well for this sort of thing.

[Lu]

The other day I read about the experiences of a Dutch China person, who tried this. He didn't manage to get all the way through the verification process, but he did get his card blocked by a Dutch bank, who noticed that suddenly there was this Chinese entity trying to get access to his credit card. Although I wonder if this would not have been easily avoided by simply informing the bank ahead of time that you're going to be in China for so-and-so long (on the other hand, this is an adult person who travels to China often enough, so one could assume he did think of that.)

[∞保罗∞]

I tried it last thursday when the news broke with a mastercard and visa card. All cards are listed on my wechat account but when you try and actually top up - it says "Service busy try again later" - looks like they will need an update to it to work, also wouldn't be the most confident.

 

[889]

I think Wechat just made a vapour ware announcement to keep up with Alipay. Like I said, Wechat wasted a lot of people's time on this before and here they are doing it again. Don't be a sucker and fall for this.

[Brian US]

I had a co-worker just go to Europe, thinking Italy or Ukraine, and she said there were places that accepted Alipay. I think this included restaurants, so would this be to accommodate Chinese tourists, or is the app in use now?

 

I think everyone should have bountiful experience of opening a Mainland bank account ?

[mungouk]

It may not be global use... when I was in Singapore it existed there, but wasn't connected to the China system at all.

 

[m000gle]

Having just returned to Canada, following a rather lengthy Christmas visit, I would like to provide a bit of an update to the current WeChat/AliPay cashless options for non-Chinese nationals.  I have experience in IT, have lived in China, and speak the language rather fluently; so, one would assume that if the average person should be able to get this working, I should find it a breeze:

1. Foreign nationals who reside in China can use both services, just like a local, provided they have a local Chinese bank account number.  Non-resident foreign nationals do not have this option.
    
2. AliPay does work, provided you are OK with the rather significant caveats.  First, non-resident foreign nationals MUST use the AliPay Tourist Pass option, as a regular account requires either a domestic Chinese bank account number or a Chinese ID card number.  Second, AliPay Tourist Pass MUST be configured using an overseas mobile number, so make sure you get things set up before you depart.  This also means that if AliPay Tourist Pass ever locks your account, you're out of luck as you likely won't be able to access your SMS text messages, from back home, which is uses for verification.  Third, AliPay charges a 5% transaction fee in addition to the 3-5% transaction fee charged by credit cards for foreign currency transactions, making this an absolutely horrible value proposition when compared to simply carrying cash.  Fourth, if Google/Apple store reviews are anything to go by, not only are there significant limits to time (max 90 days per account), and significant transaction limits (currently 5000 CNY), but some accounts are being frozen (along with all the money in them) with little to no recourse.
   
   Summary: Can work; but with high fees, and high risk.
    
3. WeChat Pay is further behind the curve even than the AliPay Tourist Pass mess, described above, to the point where it seems non-resident foreign nationals still cannot use the service at all.  You may be able to add your foreign credit card; however, you will not be allowed to add funds from them, nor will you be able to send/receive money from other WeChat users.  Real name verification still requires a local bank account or Chinese ID card number, even though a passport option exists.  Finally, attempting to use said passport option got my WeChat Pay account frozen.  After three weeks of dealing with telephone support (Chinese language only), my WeChat Pay account is both frozen (due to "suspicious activity") and unable to be cancelled (due to a balance which exists from before these regulations barring foreigners took effect).  Odds are, I will need to start a whole new WeChat account, in future, and somehow move over all my contacts, in order to rectify this mess.  If this ever does get fixed, however, I will update the post.
   
   Summary: Doesn't work, full stop.  Make use of the passport option and you run the risk of permanent loss of WeChat Pay functionality even if/when they full support on-resident foreign nationals.

in a nutshell, I would bet that very few non-resident foreign nationals will make use of either service any time soon, and those that do are subjecting themselves to what feels like a Wild West of extortionate fees and frozen accounts.

 

I normally like to present things in a more positive light, or at the very least provide mere facts without editorializing.  That said, it would be remiss of me to not admit that the whole mess has left be with a very poor impression of both services.  Use at your own risk.

[889]

Did you try to open a bank account? There are occasional reports of foreigners on tourist visas who still manage this, though it can take a lot if perseverance and perhaps luck or good contacts.

 

In any event, if you do have a Mainland bank account then you can set-up QR code payments on Alipay and Wechat whether or not you are resident in China (provided Alipay or Wechat support passport number linking with your particular bank).

 

[m000gle]

51 minutes ago, 889 said:

Did you try to open a bank account? There are occasional reports of foreigners on tourist visas who still manage this, though it can take a lot if perseverance and perhaps luck or good contacts.

 

Yes, I have tried to open a bank account at three different banking institutions, located in two different provinces.  None would accept an application, to open an account, from a foreign national without a work/study visa linked residence permit.  A tourist visa, or any duration and number of entries, will not work.

 

One thing I have not, yet, tried is making use of an overseas subsidiary/branch of a Chinese bank [e.g. Bank of China (Canada)].  However, I expect that these will not work as such subsidiaries typically function largely independent of their parent company and each other in different jurisdictions, and may be prevented by local privacy laws from automatically sending such personal information back to the PRC.

 

1 hour ago, 889 said:

In any event, if you do have a Mainland bank account then you can set-up QR code payments on Alipay and Wechat whether or not you are resident in China (provided Alipay or Wechat support passport number linking with your particular bank).

 

You are correct.  Those with an existing Mainland Chinese bank account having already verified their identity, whether resident in China or overseas, can use WeChat Pay and AliPay anywhere in the world.  This extends to foreign nationals who opened a Mainland Chinese bank account while living there; however, I am not clear for how long a foreign national, who is no longer resident in China, is able to keep their bank account (and therefor the link WeChat/AliPay wallet open) after moving back overseas.

[889]

Myself, I would have kept trying to find a bank that would work: the key is perseverance (and not getting upset at being turned down time and again). Three tries is just a starter.

 

Perhaps it depends on the bank, but so far as I know, once you have that bank account it is yours.

[Balthazar]

12 hours ago, 889 said:

Myself, I would have kept trying to find a bank that would work: the key is perseverance (and not getting upset at being turned down time and again).

 

Perseverance, or insanity, ref. the popular quote commonly misattributed to Einstein.

 

If there's been a policy change and foreigners are no longer allowed to open bank accounts without a valid (non-tourist) visa, then I'd say perseverance in this case is a fool's errand. Especially when you're on vacation for a limited time (unless you take great pleasure in visiting banks).

 

As a side note, today it became obvious to me how essential mobile payment has become in China when a food stall in a super market here I'm Suzhou refused to accept cash. I knew almost everyone pays with their mobile these days, but did not know that there are places that do not accept cash. If this is becoming more widespread I do not envy the older, less mobile savvy generations.

[Jan Finster]

When I was in Guangzhou in December I simply could not order a coffee at Luckin Coffee because they would neither accept cash nor credit cards. I am glad there is the AliPay tour card option now. 5% mark up on the AliPay tour card is really not that bad, if you only pay for small things like a coffee. After all, China is still pretty cheap compared to many western countries.