Lost my temper last night

[suMMit]

Employee in a Chinese owned beer chain, with predominantly chinese customers, kept answering my questions by saying "no" and "OK". This is happing less and less, but still annoys me when it does. I basically chastised him in Chinese and then later regretted it because its silly. I wish i could just  force myself to always ask 我们可以说中文吗? in these situations. 

[ChTTay]

Sounds good to me. Don’t beat yourself up. 

 

Sometimes people are trying to help and sometimes, even if they are, they can still be a bit stupid. This guy just sounds deliberately annoying. 

[889]

On the other hand, losing your temper is often a sign that you could use a short break from China.

 

[imron]

1 hour ago, suMMit said:

but still annoys me when it does.

Why do you let it?

 

This is something that is 100% within your control.

[Weyland]

IF I heard that any of my employees chastised one of our clients, just because said client wanted to use English to make himself clear (regardless of their reasoning). Then I'd book a ticket for them on the first flight available back to whatever backward village they came from.

Seriously though, if they were using "OK" and "No" to answer your questions instead of if he'd answer them in Chinese; I wonder if it would've mattered.

As a foreigner in China you have to watch your temper, otherwise many door of opportunity will be shut right in your face. Being a foreigner in China who can speak Chinese is almost cheating. As people have very low expectations of you when it comes to learning their language and understanding their culture. Even just feigning any sort of effort will get you a long way. Even, or rather especially, in Chinese you can come across as serious or agitated when you use (overly) polite or self-deprecating language. Being passive-aggressive isn't limited to the English language.

[roddy]

Do bear in mind that China isn't your Chinese-practicing laboratory. If people don't want to speak Chinese with you for whatever reason - including their being an arse - move on. Variously, they could have been told by the boss they have to speak English to foreigners; they could have just spent an hour dealing with someone badly pronouncing phrasebook Chinese and be over helping people practice; they could really love speaking English.

 

By all means, nudge conversations towards Chinese. But if they get nudged back to English, and this isn't a spouse or coworker, the best use of your time is enjoying your beer and making a mental note to try another bar next time. 

[道艺]

1)  Getting others to take your Chinese seriously is earned, not asked for

 

2) The more fluent you get, the more people will use Chinese as the de facto means of communication with you. You already mentioned this. If they still often revert to English, that means you have some pronunciation practice ahead of you

 

3)  As Roddy said, just as you are using him as a means to practice Chinese, others may wish to do the same with you

 

4)  Ok and No are no longer limited to English speaker's vocabulary. Listen in every now and again and you'll hear two Chinese people throwing out a 'sorry' or 'ok' or 'please' with each other, especially the younger generation

[Lu]

7 hours ago, suMMit said:

Employee in a Chinese owned beer chain, with predominantly chinese customers, kept answering my questions by saying "no" and "OK". This is happing less and less, but still annoys me when it does. I basically chastised him in Chinese and then later regretted it because its silly.

It happens. It's good that you already realised your reaction was silly. There will be other situations with people insisting to speak English to you; if you get this irritated regularly, consider a break from China. People can be annoying in all kinds of ways, but it's important not to let it get to you or you will turn sour.

[Jan Finster]

Roddy has said it all. There are tons of reasons why they speak English. In my experience it has nothing to do with your Chinese or Chinese people.

When foreigners speak broken or even fairly fluent German to me, I tend to switch to English to adjust to them. To me this is the empathic thing to do. If they continue in German, I will take the hint and continue in German.

Nevertheless, depending on their level, I feel as if I have to slow down from my natural very fast speaking speed and choose my words more carefully in order to ensure they understand (and that I do not have to repeat myself). This is actually a bit of a pain in the ass. So, while my English is certainly not perfect, it is actually easier for me to speak to them in English.

 

I can only recommend that you continue to speak Chinese to them even if they reply in English. I did this to a waitress at a restaurant today in Kaohsiung. She spoke to me in English, I spoke to her in my broken Chinese. I was satisfied. 

[Lu]

1 hour ago, Jan Finster said:

When foreigners speak broken or even fairly fluent German to me, I tend to switch to English to adjust to them.

I very consciously don't do that. If someone talks to me in Dutch, I reply in Dutch. Slow and easy if necessary, I'll even 'subtitle' myself and say every sentence twice if necessary (for example with the tourist who very obviously had cobbled together his question from the phrasebook and was not going to understand my answer), but in Dutch. I might throw in a few English words, to signal to the other person that I'm capable of speaking English if they prefer, but unless they speak English (or ask me to), Dutch it is. It takes a lot of effort to learn my language, the least I can do is give them an opportunity to use it.

[Zeppa]

2 hours ago, Jan Finster said:

When foreigners speak broken or even fairly fluent German to me, I tend to switch to English to adjust to them. To me this is the empathic thing to do. If they continue in German, I will take the hint and continue in German.

 

Or you could simply ask them in German if they would prefer you to speak English. I don't think using English is the empathetic thing to do. I felt ashamed of myself recently when I met some Germans at Oxford Circus and one had really good English but the others did not speak it. They were standing near a bus stop marked "Oxford Circus" and did not realize they were already there. I explained the whole thing to them in German but afterwards I thought at least I should have praised the first woman's English.

[Tomsima]

2 hours ago, Jan Finster said:

It has nothing to do with your Chinese...

 

I tend to switch to English to adjust to them...

This is actually a bit of a pain in the ass...

it is actually easier for me to speak to them in English.

 

Pretty sure it does have a lot to do with your language abilities!

[Jan Finster]

8 hours ago, Zeppa said:

Or you could simply ask them in German if they would prefer you to speak English. I don't think using English is the empathetic thing to do. I felt ashamed of myself recently when I met some Germans at Oxford Circus and one had really good English but the others did not speak it

Maybe it depends on the situation. I hardly ever run into tourists asking for directions. Most foreigners I speak to come for consultation and the topic is difficult enough for German natives. They start in broken German mostly because they do not want to be rude (as in "I am American and everyone is supposed to know English"). 9 out of 10 times they do not want to practice their German when they see me. Imagine going to a doctor, lawyer, psychologist or car mechanic in China. I bet you would appreciate if that doctor, lawyer, psychologist or car mechanic switched to English (?)

 

[Dawei3]

19 hours ago, 道艺黄帝 said:

f they still often revert to English, that means you have some pronunciation practice ahead of you

I've seen this personally.  I go to China just 2 - 3 times/year and during these gaps,  I practice lots of Chinese.  In previous years, when I checked into Western hotels and spoke in Chinese, they would rapidly switch to English.  However, during recent trips, when checking in or during other activities and I didn't understand, the person I would say "让我们说英文."  Yet, they would continue in Chinese because they assumed my level must be quite higher.  That is, I had the complete opposite experience of earlier trips and this must be do to my pronunciation & word use.

[Zeppa]

 

Quote

 

@Jan Finster

Quote

I bet you would appreciate if that doctor, lawyer, psychologist or car mechanic switched to English (?)

 

No, absolutely, you're quite right that it depends on context. As far as Chinese is concerned, I understand virtually nothing. With German it's better as I am a lawyer and legal translator, so if a German lawyer talks to me about German law in English, it is usually a disaster. A lot of professionals think they can speak English but they are stuck when it comes to their own specialities. Car mechanics, on the other hand, I can scarcely understand in English or German.

 

Of course that doesn't really help the OP. And I am sure with Dutch and German it is more likely

 

 

[roddy]

16 hours ago, Jan Finster said:

Roddy has said it all.

One of a number of things I've been accused of over the years...

 

@suMMit, how are you doing?

[Lu]

6 hours ago, Jan Finster said:

I hardly ever run into tourists asking for directions. Most foreigners I speak to come for consultation and the topic is difficult enough for German natives. They start in broken German mostly because they do not want to be rude (as in "I am American and everyone is supposed to know English"). 9 out of 10 times they do not want to practice their German when they see me.

In that case, yes, your approach sounds right. Different from the situations I was thinking of. Shows once again that context is everything :-)

[suMMit]

On 12/19/2019 at 11:34 AM, 889 said:

On the other hand, losing your temper is often a sign that you could use a short break from China.

It's been over a year, so probably. Got one coming up.

 

 

On 12/19/2019 at 12:11 PM, imron said:

On 12/19/2019 at 10:28 AM, suMMit said:

but still annoys me when it does.

Why do you let it?

 

This is something that is 100% within your control.

I agree the reaction is, but I'm not sure you can control what annoys you?

 

On 12/19/2019 at 5:11 PM, 道艺黄帝 said:

1)  Getting others to take your Chinese seriously is earned, not asked for

I disagree with this. I see nothing wrong with politely asking if we can speak in Chinese. When I do do that, it works almost every time. And, if it doesn't then fine, I can move on as quickly as possible. Furthermore, I have seen friends of mine who speak top notch Chinese and also get an English reply. So its not always given even if it has been earned.

 

I also find in situations like this, that it's better to just say what you want with Chinese people, rather than trying to imply it

 

On 12/19/2019 at 5:48 PM, Lu said:

There will be other situations with people insisting to speak English to you;  People can be annoying in all kinds of ways, but it's important not to let it get to you or you will turn sour.

I agree

 

57 minutes ago, roddy said:

@suMMit, how are you doing?

Going to try not to get irritated next time and to simply ask people 我们可以说中文吗？in these situations.  I'm putting it on my 2020 goals list.

[imron]

21 minutes ago, suMMit said:

but I'm not sure you can control what annoys you?

Why not?  The human mind is quite easily controlled and conditioned, and you have complete control over your own one.

Next time you find yourself being annoyed by this, have a think about why it is.

 

Is it because you feel they are depriving you of Chinese practice, or because you feel they are making a slight against your Chinese, or some other reason, or a mix of all of the those things and then tell yourself actually there's no need to be annoyed because none of those things are really true unless you perceive them to be true, and you can change your perception (glass half full vs glass half empty).

 

This sort of thing used to annoy me too.  Then I decided I didn't want to be annoyed about something so trivial, and after adjusting my perspective now it doesn't annoy me.

 

As you said:

 

21 minutes ago, suMMit said:

Going to try not to get irritated next time and to simply ask people 我们可以说中文吗？in these situations.

 

The more you practice, the easier it will get.

[roddy]

Happened to see a Montaigne quote earlier. Something like: "being unable to govern events, I must govern myself." You get a few seconds window after an annoying occurrence where you will be irritated. After that you've had enough time to start choosing reactions. Like most things, it requires practice. But we know this already. 

 

I noticed that Montaigne quote as I'd seen another one yesterday I wanted to remember. I've forgotten that first one though.