Pinyin sounds with restricted tones

[Jan Finster]

I noticed there are certain pinyin sounds that only occur in 1 or 2 of the four (5) tones.

 

For example, "ping" seems to occur only as either píng or pīng, but according to Pleco not in the third or fourth tone. Knowing this makes it easier to remember the tones (or tone options) IMO.

 

I wonder if you know of other examples?

[DavyJonesLocker]

de is the first one that springs to mind. 

[Weyland]

Sadly, unlike erhua (儿化) where the rules are more all encompassing there is no standardization when it comes to applying the neutral tone to the ends of words (qingsheng 轻声)。There are some like 了，子，的，着，头, where you can be almost certain that they're in the neutral tone when at the end of a word. You'll have to memorize the rest.

Here is a list of most, if not all, bisyllable words with a netural end the average Chinese is expected to know.

Comment; some of the words like 东边 and 上边 they expect you to know that 下边's 边 is also in the neutral tone. Yet, 旁边's 边 isn't (see the rule doesn't apply).

[Jan Finster]

1 hour ago, Weyland said:

Here is a list of most, if not all, bisyllable words with a netural end the average Chinese is expected to know.

 

Is this source really reliable?

For example, at least the Popup Zhongwen Dictionary suggests 摆布 as bai3bu4. I checked this word on Pleco and your site is correct and the Popup Dictionary is wrong. But,  for example for 高粱  Pleco also suggests gao1liang2.

There is further disagreement between Popup Zhongwen Dictionary and around 10-20% of the words on this page...

 

Also, some words apparently have two meanings, e.g. 差事 with cha4shi4 meaning "poor" and cha1shi meaning "errand"...Other example 便当 as bian4dang "convenient" and bian4dang1 as boxed meal (bento box).... same with 抽搭 and others (!?)

[Weyland]

3 minutes ago, Jan Finster said:

Is this source really reliable?

 

It's  a government website by a website that organizes the 普通话水平测试.

 

Pleco shows both due to how the app isn't limited to the mainland. I have requested an option on Pleco to make the 轻声 option be the only one that shows up when there is no difference between the two pronunciations. As would be the case with both pronunciations of 本事.

 

Pop-up dictionaries are pretty crap.

[Jan Finster]

3 minutes ago, Weyland said:

o difference between the two pronunciations. As would be the case with both pronunciations of 本事.

 

?

On my Pleco there is ben3shi as "skill" and ben3shi4 as "source material" / "original story". Hardly the same (!?)

[roddy]

Pick your source. The 普通话水平测试 is one, a reliable dictionary another, what you hear spoken around you yet another*. It's not likely to make a huge difference. 

 

* Don't ask them how to pronounce specific words though, or they'll overthink it and get confused. Cue 20 minute office discussion, and you being no wiser. 

 

Edit: Hang on, what's this got to do with the OP? Also, 忒。

[Weyland]

51 minutes ago, Jan Finster said:

On my Pleco there is ben3shi as "skill" and ben3shi4 as "source material" / "original story". Hardly the same (!?)

Yes. That's what I was aiming at. It's rarely the case that the  轻声 pronunciation changes the meaning. Often it's the same word, but in a few instances (with 本事 being the only one that comes to mind) the meaning can differ between these variations.

[wibr]

Some years ago I created a pinyin chart which visualizes the tones each sound can carry: https://github.com/jiong3/pinyinChart

[Jan Finster]

16 minutes ago, wibr said:

Some years ago I created a pinyin chart which visualizes the tones each sound can carry: https://github.com/jiong3/pinyinChart

This is actually very cool! Thanks!!!

 

Is there a way to extract those pinyin sounds from the chart that have less than four possible tones?

(I have know zero about coding...)

[wibr]

Easiest is probably to do it manually just looking at the chart, shouldn't take too much time. Otherwise a small modification to one of the python scripts would do the job.

[889]

Some pretty common examples where a light tone at the end or not makes a difference:

 

东西

兄弟

地道

地方

大意

[suMMit]

maybe ive misunderstood the op question, but isnt he asking if there are pinyin syllables that dont take all four tones? ie. i dont think ban2 exists or idk he3. Thoughi dont really see what use that information is anyway.

 

though i just see now that wibr seems to have answered.

 

How can this be of any help at all though?

 

personally i wish i could/i try to completly keep jie1 or jie2 etc etc as having as little connection as possible

[889]

I was replying to this question of the OP:

 

"Also, some words apparently have two meanings, e.g. 差事 with cha4shi4 meaning 'poor' and cha1shi meaning 'errand'...Other example 便当 as bian4dang 'convenient' and bian4dang1 as boxed meal (bento box).... same with 抽搭 and others (!?)"

[roddy]

Errand is chai, not cha, no?