Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[suMMit]

1 hour ago, Shelley said:

Why are they moving people out? Why would the US or UK or other countries want to be moving their people back to possibly bring the virus with them?

Easy for you to say. What if it was you son or daughter? And for the diplomats, as in the case of US at least, the country is responsible for them. Besides, this virus is not deadly for most people if it can be dealt with in good conditions.

[suMMit]

What question did I raise five days ago and the thread was summarily locked? 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/01/28/intv-amanpour-thomas-inglesby-coronavirus.cnn

Expert: Possibility China can't control coronavirus outbreak

[Shelley]

2 hours ago, suMMit said:

Easy for you to say. What if it was you son or daughter?

 

I can't answer that question with any conviction as I don't have any children. Of course I would worry but not necessarily much more than I would worry about about them traveling halfway round the world in the first place. It would have been on my list of what problems my children could encounter travelling to far away places or even near places.

 

This is just the sort of thing one should expect when venturing off round the world on adventures, what if the bungee rope breaks when they are jumping off that bridge in New Zealand, what if they get caught in a hurricane in the Caribbean and so on. I am sure you get my drift.

 

Again I can't speak with any experience as I have never been to China, I don't have any kids or relatives in China.

 

I have crossed the Atlantic 3 times, travelled round the UK and ventured on to the continent, so I know what traveling is about.

 

When you go to some countries you need vaccinations - therefore you must be at serious risk of catching something.

 

My Point: Its a risk, you weigh up the risks before you go. If it happens you deal with it. No amount of worrying will change things.

[Jan Finster]

9 minutes ago, Shelley said:

My Point: Its a risk, you weigh up the risks before you go. If it happens you deal with it. No amount of worrying will change things.

 

I agree that getting potentially infected people out of China is risky unless these people are put under a quarantine in their home country. One of the reason quarantines of cities may not work is that people escape the quarantine before it is implemented. Also, rich people, important people and/or famous people may be exempt of the quarantine. 

 

Nevertheless, your argument "anything can happen abroad" boils down to saying "tough!", which is both cruel and inaccurate. SARS was 17 years ago. Coronavirus is not something you have to take into account when you travel to China. As a citizen your government is still somewhat responsible for you, even if you are not in your home country. If foreigners were to die of coronavirus in China and their home countries had refused to get them out in time, imagine the outcry.

 

 

[Shelley]

1 minute ago, Jan Finster said:

countries had refused to get them out in time

 

Let me clarify, I think it is now "not in time"

[dtcamero]

with regards to whether countries should be evacuating people...

 

please remember that we’re still dealing with a virus that is almost certainly not life threatening, and a population that overall probably does not have a very high rate of infection. even in wuhan.

 

also the quality of care in an overwhelmed chinese hospital would be terrible, and certainly give you high exposure to the virus.

 

i don’t think it’s unrealistic for western governments to try to get small groups of individuals out and into a safe quarantined environment in where better medical care can be given.

 

this is not a zombie apocalypse.

we don’t need to write the whole country off as lost to us quite yet.

[Jan Finster]

12 minutes ago, Shelley said:

I think it is now "not in time"

Following the logic of my post, as long as no foreigner has died in China, it is "on time".

 

 

[BanjoSlice]

1 hour ago, Shelley said:

Again I can't speak with any experience as I have never been to China, I don't have any kids or relatives in China.

I think it's better to leave the thread to those currently in China.

1 hour ago, Shelley said:

When you go to some countries you need vaccinations - therefore you must be at serious risk of catching something.

 

My Point: Its a risk, you weigh up the risks before you go. If it happens you deal with it. No amount of worrying will change things.

There are no vaccines for this(yet). You cannot calculate risk of an outbreak. It just happens(happened) unexpectedly so it's not something you can predict upfront.

[Shelley]

14 minutes ago, Lance said:

I think it's better to leave the thread to those currently in China.

 

Is this a requirement of this topic? If so it wasn't that clear as "general discussion" was in the title.

 

I will however remove myself from the discussion as I can't add anything helpful and I have shared my opinion and have other things to get on with.

[Dawei3]

2 hours ago, Shelley said:

 

I will however remove myself from the discussion

I welcome reading your insights.  My expertise is health sciences and I fully accept that this is a highly complex issue.  No one has the perfect answers.  The question of whether to stay or leave has no "right" answer - at least as of today  (in 6 months, we'll have a better idea of what we should have done now - but of course, that isn't helpful now). 

 

If someone wants to disregard what I say because I'm not in China, that's their choice (neither you nor I is forcing anyone to read our posts).  Hence, please stay engaged.    

 

The CDC's former head is very circumspect in making conclusions now:  https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/beginning-look-pretty-intense-former-cdc-head-who-led-u-n1124531  (and she is VERY credible - one of the top in credibility).

 

 

  

[imron]

6 hours ago, Shelley said:

My Point: Its a risk, you weigh up the risks before you go

Some of the people evacuated were diplomatic staff and their families.  Before they left, the risk was low.  With the outbreak the risk changes and the government decided to bring them back.  This is not controversial, and typically happens if a country decides there is a threat to the health and safety of its diplomats and their families.  Then if you're already organising flights, you might as well help out your own citizens also stuck in that situation.  As long as they are quarantined for a period of time upon return, it hopefully shouldn't have an impact on the spread of the disease.

[Shelley]

Point of interest: all returning UK evacuees will be on 14 day quarantine. there was mention of using a disused army base for this purpose. So not self imposed, but enforced.

 

Things are moving up a notch over here,  the fear level is increasing. 

 

There are 3000 chinese students at the university here. Some are becoming concerned about not being able to return when planned,  a few interviewed on tv showed the start of face mask wearing, and associated protections.

 

It is a delicate balance between sensible precautions and zombie levels of fear 

[ChTTay]

2 hours ago, Shelley said:

interest: all returning UK evacuees will be on 14 day quarantine. there was mention of using a disused army base for this purpose. So not self imposed, but enforced.

Yes, all the governments who have talked about extraction have mentioned an imposed quarantine from the beginning. An absolute must! 
 

I was also right about Chinese people buying up all the N95 masks in the USA. The NY times just had a story on it. 

[corian]

26 minutes ago, ChTTay said:

Yes, all the governments who have talked about extraction have mentioned an imposed quarantine from the beginning. An absolute must! 

 

You'd think so.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-japan/japan-sends-plane-to-fly-citizens-home-from-chinas-virus-hit-wuhan-idUSKBN1ZR0BZ

Quote

Those with symptoms such as fever will be sent to hospital on landing at Tokyo’s Haneda airport, he added, while those with no signs of virus can go home and then to work or school, but told to avoid crowds and take their temperatures twice a day.

Any who later develop symptoms such as fever, a cough or a sore throat will be asked to contact health officials.

 

[ChTTay]

Wow! That has changed then I guess. The first story I read about the Japanese extraction was about a bus taking them elsewhere in China. I guess roadblocks made that impractical! 
 

[Balthazar]

34 minutes ago, ChTTay said:

 

I was also right about Chinese people buying up all the N95 masks in the USA.

Not only Chinese, there's a lot of panickers at Reddit that have been making bulk purchases as well (partly due to the fear that they will all be bought up by Chinese). Heck, I went ahead and ordered 30 masks from a Norwegian store myself, "just to be safe" (and to be able to ship them to China if masks remain hard to obtain here).

[abcdefg]

12 hours ago, Shelley said:

Again I can't speak with any experience as I have never been to China, I don't have any kids or relatives in China.

 

No kids or relatives in China? What? Come on, Shelley, you have all of us!  

[mungouk]

10 hours ago, Shelley said:

Things are moving up a notch over here,  the fear level is increasing. 

 

Fear levels stoked by the media, of course. 

 

But putting it in perspective, the UK hasn't even had a single confirmed case of the virus yet, despite more than 90 people being tested. 

 

 

[roddy]

Something odd going on with the UK evacuation flight (hopefully the one Tomsima's on, assuming he decided to try and get there), been delayed while UK negotiates for permission for it to leave. I'd assume it's a problem with Chinese dependents / dual nationals who want to leave.

 

Edit: Also, BA cancelled all China flights for a month.

[889]

If you're American in Hubei and missed the first evacuation flight, the State Department is planning a second flight around February 3.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-plans-another-wuhan-evacuation-flight-as-soon-as-next-week-11580380747