Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[ChTTay]

3 hours ago, Ruben von Zwack said:

It was often pointed out that Corona is a serious risk "just" to the elderly, and to people who are already ill. But how does this apply to 30-something Dr. Li Wenliang?

The better sources of information usually point out it can be fatal to anyone BUT elderly and those with pre-existing conditions are more at risk.  

 

Folk on the street like to say this to make themselves feel better I think. 

6 hours ago, abcdefg said:

After catching up on reading the recent posts in this thread, I feel very fortunate to have gotten out when I did.

Yep, I’m still here. Not sure how it will turn out but I take strength from the fact I’m not the only one! I lot of people I know here in Beijing are still here. 

 

9 hours ago, Dawei3 said:

village,"  because Xiantao is a city, not a village.  I don't know if she meant 社区.

I reckon she meant community / 小区 because of the ticket system she mentions. Seems a common measure right now. Not sure how effective it is really as it will just mean all the old folk who go out walking each day will instead walk within the community walls. Same with those with kids I see out walking and playing as a family. As such, a lot more people in closer contact. 
 

Most villages I’ve heard about are just locked down. No one in or out of the village. I assume exceptions made for those bringing food supplies And such like. 

[Jim]

It's viral load with coronaviruses too I believe, so repeated/ongoing exposure puts you at risk of a much more serious infection.

[ChTTay]

The below article is making the rounds in expat wechat circles. I think it’s a good read... worth posting here. 
 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/somethings-right-here-folks-look-usa-2009-h1n1-virus-compared-cavolo/?from=timeline&isappinstalled=0

[dtcamero]

i keep hearing about this omnipresent western racism towards everything chinese nowadays, but so far have yet to see anything that isn’t immediately outed as such and condemned. 

 

as for that article, while i’m also no fan of bigotry, the author does himself and china no favors by stringing together logical fallacies and straw man arguments.

 

 the pinnacle of which is his constant comparison with the 2009 h1n1 swine flu. i was living in america then and didnt even know it was going on. 4000 deaths in the US show that it wasn’t much greater risk to the public than the normal flu which also kills a few thousand half-dead people every year, yet we’re comparing it to a sickness that has quarantined 1/4 of the people on earth?

 

and then that this guy is carrying a lot of water for the chinese government is at once the most problematic and revealing aspect of his manifesto. so let’s acknowledge that that’s the ulterior motive all along and happily dismiss this guy who probably married a very patriotic chinese woman and was brainwashed despite the fact that he obviously ought to have known better.

[feihong]

I think that article is worth sharing because it’s really making the rounds, but I feel he’s grossly mischaracterizing the 2009 flu pandemic in the US. Yes, it happened, but I was in the US back then and barely remember it.

[Flickserve]

1 hour ago, feihong said:

Yes, it happened, but I was in the US back then and barely remember it.

 

From a public health point of view, ‘barely remember it’ is very worrying. A new virus that can kill gets into the general population...

[Balthazar]

 

4 hours ago, dtcamero said:

 the pinnacle of which is his constant comparison with the 2009 h1n1 swine flu. i was living in america then and didnt even know it was going on. 4000 deaths in the US show that it wasn’t much greater risk to the public than the normal flu which also kills a few thousand half-dead people every year, yet we’re comparing it to a sickness that has quarantined 1/4 of the people on earth?

 

(Notwithstanding the fact that it's not true that 1/4 of the people on earth has been quarantined) It's doesn't make sense to judge the seriousness of two diseases/viruses by the measures imposed by the governments in the country of which it originated. It's easy to say now that H1N1 didn't turn out to be the big scare a lot of people made it out to be early on(which may also turn out to be the case for the Wuhan coronavirus), but it's not like it was obvious as the time. Also, did people in the US really not know about the H1N1 outbreak? Here in Norway it was made a huge deal out of it, as it was believed to disproportionately affect young people. 45 percent of the population (including yours truly) got the Pandemrix vaccine when it became available in October 2009 (it later turned out to increase the risk of developing narcolepsy, which gave a big boost to the anti-vaccine movement here).

[Guest realmayo]

Interesting that the linkedin post is getting lots of attention, but it's illogical:

 

a) The article simultaneously praises the Chinese for doing FAR MORE than has every been done before to prevent the spread of infection, while condemning western countries for doing FAR MORE than has every been done before to prevent the spread of infection.

 

b) The article implies criticism of the local government is racist, but plenty of Chinese are critical too.

 

Quote

Whether in a couple of weeks or months later, this nasty flu type Corona virus will begin declining and the joy of Spring will arrive. Between now and then if you don't have anything good, anything supportive to say about China or Chinese people, how about you just keep your mouth shut.

 

It's normal to hear those kinds of comments from Chinese people over the years and why not, it's understandable people get defensive when the in-group is being criticised. But it seems to me - maybe I'm completely wrong - that those voices are quieter as usual. So it's funny to hear them spoken by a foreigner!

Edited February 8, 2020 at 01:38 PM by realmayo

[Guest realmayo]

12 hours ago, Ruben von Zwack said:

It was often pointed out that Corona is a serious risk "just" to the elderly, and to people who are already ill. But how does this apply to 30-something Dr. Li Wenliang?

 

Caixin have an English translation of an interview they carried out with an ICU doctor at Wuhan University South Central Hospital a few days ago. He is asked about whether this virus can trigger a "cytokine storm", which wikipedia tells me causes young healthy people to be, in effect, more at risk. The doctor is reported as saying:

 

Quote

Based on my observations, a third of patients exhibited inflammation in their whole body. It was not necessarily limited to young adults. The mechanism of a cytokine storm is about whole-body inflammation, which leads to a failure of multiple organs and quickly evolves into the terminal stage. In some fast-progressing cases, it took two to three days to progress from whole-body inflammation to the life-threatening stage.

 

Full interview is here, requires free registration to read: https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-02-06/reporters-notebook-we-interview-front-line-coronavirus-doctor-101512020.html

 

 

There's something about these medics which reminds me a bit of the workers who had to try to shut down Chernobyl.

 

[feihong]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:16 AM, Balthazar said:

Also, did people in the US really not know about the H1N1 outbreak? Here in Norway it was made a huge deal out of it, as it was believed to disproportionately affect young people.

I’m sure I heard of it in the news, but as a healthy young adult, I didn’t have too much to be worried about. According to the Wikipedia page for H1N1 virus, “The virulence of swine flu virus is mild and the mortality rates are very low.”

[Balthazar]

Yeah, we know that now (low mortality rates), but it wasn't obvious initially (as it usually isn't), and there was quite a bit of hysteria about it in Europe. Surprised it wasn't like that in the US too..

[Ruben von Zwack]

About that alleged omnipresent bigotry towards Chinese: the Chinese restaurants and supermarkets in Munich are brimming with customers of all races. No one moves away, or even looks at them, when there's Asian-looking people on the subway, not even when they are obvious tourists and loudly and clearly speak Mandarin.

The first week or so when Corona became big news, I had the feeling the Asian tourists were uneasy and keeping to themselves. But they have gotten back to their normal selves, chatting in Mandarin and Korean on the subway, taking selfies at the sight seeing places, etc.

 

[Ruben von Zwack]

Quote

requires free registration

Thank you Realmayo! I wasn't aware they had a free option, too. I'm a happy camper now.

[DavyJonesLocker]

I think the main theme is solid though. This is just another excuse to bash china. I find it quite pathetic, western countries  acting like a snot nose school boy jeering at the back of the class

 

Try look at the recent stupidity coming out of Seprenza and his sidekick laowhy86 on youtube. They are both pumping out idiotic videos almost daily now

[889]

That's odd.

 

Me, I take it as another chance for those who believe China's always the bullied victim to wave that red flag once again. And again.

[Balthazar]

Both perspectives could be true at the same time.

 

I too think the author makes some valid points, although I think he exaggerates. The part about "hateful vicious attacks on the Chinese government" (my emphasis) is particularly cringe worthy, as his phrasing indirectly adds to the troublesome tendency of conflating the "feelings" of a country's government with it's citizens' feelings (taking a page from the CCP's book, e.g. criticism of the government hurts the feelings of a billion+ individuals).

 

At the same time, some of the described episodes of xenophobia towards Asians are troubling (assuming they are true, I see no reason to doubt that). But others, such as mask-wearing people receiving what they interpret to be hostile/mocking stares, could be due to the fact that someone wearing a mask is generally a novelty in most Western countries. Added together with confirmation bias, where a curious stare will easily be interpreted as a hostile one. No doubt it's uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of some of these situations, but it's hard to do anything about it when the fear of the virus has already spread, humans being human and all. Hopefully (and probably) it's just a temporary thing.

[Guest realmayo]

30 minutes ago, Balthazar said:

mask-wearing people receiving what they interpret to be hostile/mocking stares, could be due to the fact that someone wearing a mask is generally a novelty in most Western countries

 

Yes - I think most people would think you'll only wear a mask if (a) you've got an infectious disease or (b) you think people around you might have an infectious disease.

 

2 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

This is just another excuse to bash china.

 

I suggest you write to China Global Television Network and complain about the China-bashing that a chap called Yang Rui was encouraging on the show "Dialogue" yesterday: he permitted and indeed accepted criticism by Chinese guests of the local government response to the virus.

[roddy]

3 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I find it quite pathetic, western countries  acting like a snot nose school boy jeering at the back of the class

 

Try look at the recent stupidity coming out of Seprenza and his sidekick laowhy86 on youtube.

I wish I was clever enough to base such sweeping statements on a couple of Youtubers. Maybe one day. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

37 minutes ago, roddy said:

I wish I was clever enough to base such sweeping statements on a couple of Youtubers. Maybe one day. 

 

yeah maybe you will be smart enough to know that it's not meant to be literal statement and more of a generalization of western media and its attitude towards China 

 

 

[somethingfunny]

2 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

3 hours ago, roddy said:

I wish I was clever enough to base such sweeping statements on a couple of Youtubers. Maybe one day. 

 

yeah maybe you will be smart enough to know that it's not meant to be literal statement and more of a generalization of western media and its attitude towards China

 

Wait.  I'm confused...