Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[Flickserve]

3 minutes ago, 889 said:

Keys and other hard objects can damage lift buttons, as signs constantly remind.

Is it not an acceptable trade off given the current circumstances? 

[889]

But it's not a necessary trade-off. Just use your sleeve or shopping bag or such.

[Jan Finster]

Interesting text with great graphs:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

[杰.克]

11 hours ago, Flickserve said:

One conspiracy theory gaining traction is the effect of infection and future healthcare costs. A sort of throwing people to the wolves for future savings.

 

I live in the UK, I've not heard this mentioned once, and even if I had, i still want to point out, I think its stupid and reckless to spread things that are clearly completely ridiculous and damaging to public stability such as this.

 

Also, as i struggle to stay on my high horse, can i also just point how silly believing  (not saying you do flickserve ) this would be. Cabinet ministers have become infected. Noone is going to allow an infection to spread, just to reduce abstract health costs on a piece of paper, if it can directly impact and possibly kill yourself or your family members

[ChTTay]

14 hours ago, somethingfunny said:

imagine most schools in China are currently gearing up to open their doors again.

No sir. Only a couple of provinces have announced opening dates and these are mostly for grade 12 (and 9?) as they have exams. 
 

Any International schools will need at least 2 weeks to get staff back from abroad and let them do the 14 day quarantine. 
 

It will be some time in April at the earliest for many and start times will differ by grade with the youngest last. 

14 hours ago, mungouk said:

and they're just waiting for the word from the local Education Bureau about when they can have their return-to-school plans approved for the students,

I still can’t see this happening before April and probably not at the start of April either. 

[ChTTay]

7 hours ago, Flickserve said:

Anybody who stayed in mainland China have any other suggestions? 

Avoid taking elevators. I haven’t used our apartment building’s in a month with the exception of hauling those water cooler bottles of water up to my place. I’m only on the 6th floor luckily but my friend who is back at work in an office walks up to the 12th floor. Good exercise. No need to worry about touching buttons ?

[Shelley]

Well my hospital appointment has been canceled, a phone call early this morning from the hospital. They said it was because of contingency plans. Not sure what they are, was not awake enough to ask more questions.

I don't actually mind, I was more concerned about going to a very large hospital with thousands of people where there has been at least one confirmed case and critical care ward closed for 2 weeks.

So 2 days of unexpected time to catch up on some chinese studies or crafting or maybe even some house work.

[Ruben von Zwack]

8 hours ago, Flickserve said:

carry a little spray with alcohol

Thank you for your tips! This is so interesting to hear. I would even love to hear the "outlandish" ones,  just for fun.

Did I mention though that disinfectant is sold out in Europe ?

[Flickserve]

There is a news report today of considerable significance.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/mar/12/coronavirus-most-infections-spread-by-people-yet-to-show-symptoms-scientists

 

Tapiwa Ganyani, a researcher on the team, said the numbers suggest that isolating sick people would not be enough to quell the outbreak. “It is unlikely that these measures alone will suffice to control the Covid-19 epidemic,” he said. “Additional measures, such as social distancing, are required.”

The finding confirms recent comments from Maria Van Kerkhove, head of the World Health Organization’s emerging diseases and zoonoses unit, who said preliminary data showed patients shed more virus in the early stages of the disease, including when presymptomatic. A separate study that tracked nine patients in Germany found that levels of the virus might already be in decline when symptoms come on

 

 

This is huge news. People can transmit disease even without symptoms. Thus, wearing a mask (barrier protection and social distancing) only when you are symptomatic is too late to prevent a period of transmission of disease.

 

 

[Ruben von Zwack]

Oh, that was the state of information in Germany all along. But other scientists criticized that the scientists from this paper had not spoken with the Chinese lady who was the carrier. They just assumed that she was fine, when in fact she told other scientists that  she did feel unwell at the time her colleagues caught the infection from her.

[ChTTay]

There was an announcement in Beijing today that all pax into PEK (not sure about the new airport) would be transferred from the airport to the National Exhibition Center for screening via bus. If cleared, you would then be taken via bus again to your community where you would be under quarantine for 14 days.
 

I found out via friends who are on the way back and some Intl schools have sent out messages to staff advising of this new procedure. 

 

I rolled past the Exhibition centre today and saw a few hazmat guys, guards, police. An ambulance and some coaches pulled in around the same time. 
 

However, some uncertainty at the moment whether it’s just Passengers Flying in from high risk countries or whether it’s ALL passengers. 

[ChTTay]

3 hours ago, Ruben von Zwack said:

Did I mention though that disinfectant is sold out in Europe ?

What about bleach? Cleaning alcohol? 
 

The U.K. had a run on toilet paper. Shelves empty and panic buying. It seems funny to me that toilet paper became the thing to panic buy. In China many Chinese people were buying oil, flour and rice. Foreigners I knew who stocked up big time were all about canned goods. No one was like “I need to make sure I have enough toilet roll to build a small fort around my toilet”. 
 

My parents were told on Sunday by friends that the local supermarket was out. They went Monday morning to find it bursting with stock. 

[mungouk]

4 minutes ago, ChTTay said:

However, some uncertainty at the moment whether it’s just Passengers Flying in from high risk countries or whether it’s ALL passengers. 

 

According to this update today from the UK Foreign Office, they're now expecting arrivals to self-isolate regardless of where they came from. (cf. Shanghai where it's only high-risk countries).

 

Quote

 

People arriving from overseas into Beijing (from 11 March) and Guangdong province (from 13 March), irrespective of country of origin, must undertake 14 days of self-isolation at their place of residence or centralised quarantine. Self-isolation is likely to be monitored by local authorities. This announcement will affect all British Nationals irrespective of their departure point. Other cities have not yet formally put in place similar measures (but are likely to do so in due course). Short term business travellers to Beijing will be required to stay in a designated hotel on arrival and must not leave until they have received test results for coronavirus.

 

Local authorities in Shanghai province have announced 14 days of mandatory quarantine for people who have visited or transited France, Germany, Spain, the United States, Italy, Iran, Japan and the Republic of Korea over the preceding 14 days before arriving in China. The number of provinces and cities implementing such restrictions is likely to increase and may also apply to arrivals from further countries. There have been reports of British and other foreign nationals being put under compulsory quarantine or home isolation, including following arrival from other destinations beyond those specified above. 

 

 

[Shelley]

Here we ran out of toilet paper, baked beans, eggs, vegetable oil, bread and tinned tuna.

 

 

Oh and hand sanitizer and face masks are a given -none to be had anywhere, signs in shops declaring as much. Mind you still had one lady come in and ask as I was buying something else, every one wondered if she couldn't read.

[Flickserve]

12 hours ago, 889 said:

But it's not a necessary trade-off. Just use your sleeve or shopping bag or such.

bigger surface area.

 

 

[889]

Then the rubbery end of a pencil maybe. Carefully cover it -- or maybe even your finger -- in tissue paper first. Then after use burn the tissue paper and contribute to global warming.

 

The virus isn't an excuse to play vandal in the lift.

[Flickserve]

8 hours ago, 杰.克 said:

Also, as i struggle to stay on my high horse, can i also just point how silly believing  (not saying you do flickserve ) this would be. Cabinet ministers have become infected. Noone is going to allow an infection to spread, just to reduce abstract health costs on a piece of paper, if it can directly impact and possibly kill yourself or your family members

yup. Hard to believe right. Just like it’s hard to believe the masterly inactivity that UK is undergoing. 
 

Some of the difficult ethical dilemmas are covered here on who will get intensive care treatment applying utilitarian philosophy. Luckily the article is not too long.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/?fbclid=IwAR1v-GWRS9svmpn-hQUF85QkwO4SWhZeV86y17JEFuocgucCebTF8ZScbnk 

[Ruben von Zwack]

I found a dozen face masks in the cupboard that I had bought a while ago. Can you use them multiple times? I'm not sure whether I should use them now, or save them for when things get really tense.

[Jan Finster]

13 hours ago, Flickserve said:

- Use a tissue to open doors. Use the same tissue to open other doors or press lifts. Throw tissue away and then use hand sanitizer (aim to decrease viral load).

 

- open a door with your feet

 

- if a door is closing, put out your foot to stop it closing and then push it open with your foot. You won’t need to use you hand to touch it.

 

- put a clear plastic sheet over keyboards. You can still type, just a bit slower. Plastic sheets are easier to clean
 

- carry a little spray with alcohol. You can spray suspicious surfaces with it and then use tissue to wipe it. Throw away tissue afterwards. 

 

- Prepare a mat outside your home, have it soaked with disinfectant and step on it with your shoes before going inside. 

- wipe down toilets seats and close the lid when flushing. Coronavirus stays in faeces and water droplets splash up in the air when flushing the toilet. 
 

- use a key to press a lift button (small surface area, key can be cleaned easily). 

 

These are all good suggestions some of which I already apply.

 

Nevertheless, in my case at work, it is really impossible to keep the hands clean unless I would wear gloves all the time. It is not just the keyboards and door handles that I touch, it is the computer mouse (mice(?)), the tables (surfaces) the keyboards are placed on, the cupboards, drawers, work phones and all sorts of equipment that is shared among colleagues...

Minimising exposure rather than eliminating exposure is what we are currently doing.

 

 

 

[Tomsima]

"We are considering banning major public events like sporting fixtures," said Johnson.

"The scientific advice is this has little effect on the spread - but it does place a burden on other public services.

Johnson added: "We are guided by the science; there is no medical reason at the moment to ban such events."

 

If this is the 'scientific advice' the uk gov is getting, we clearly need to step up our international awareness…can't believe we're just sitting here waiting for it all to happen over here now. Every statement on the response to the virus seems to include the words "at the moment", serious lack of preemptive action, how on earth people are still not scared seeing whats happening in italy right now is beyond me…