Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[ChTTay]

Lots of Chinese stories (I say stories deliberately)that I have seen/heard talk about how people are coming (back) to China because it’s the safest place. This includes Chinese people and foreigners.
 

It’s somewhat troubling the way “imported” virus cases are reported as often they only say they’re “from _____” the country and do not say that, actually, they’re almost all Chinese returnees.
 

The “volunteers” who check temperature and passes at my apartment gate have already started singling out foreign residents. Most of the time, I get asked for my passport to confirm my pass is my own (it just has my surname so that’s all they can check). They very rarely check any 身份证 that I have seen. Have other rumours going round but none I can verify so won’t bother posting them! 

[abcdefg]

42 minutes ago, ChTTay said:

The “volunteers” who check temperature and passes at my apartment gate have already started singling out foreign residents.

 

Interesting. Had been wondering if this crisis might trigger an uptick in xenophobia. 

[Flickserve]

1 hour ago, 889 said:

It's the ones being home quarantined with family members who are dangerous. Arrivals are being quarantined at home, but the family members they live with -- in small packed Hong Kong flats -- remain free to circulate in the community.

 

That's another thing as well. I had said to my kid it's even better if any of the kids in the party had close family also had not been abroad in the two weeks or more (to be precise 28 days period would cover most bases on a infected person and a contact).

 

A number stay out in a hotel and leave the family at home or vice versa.

 

I had to educate an expat friend of mine who refuses to wear a mask. Her daughter is coming back. She's not going out either because she herself has a cold. I told her to wear a mask - it's possible to get co-infections which complicate the picture. She's well educated but the other week, she went out with a group of other expat ladies in a group of 65 people! I asked her what was going on. She said, an expat mum wanted to arrange something for those having been cooped up for two weeks. I saw the pictures and none were wearing masks. Some putting arms around each other..... Frightening.

 

1 hour ago, 889 said:

If new cases reach 100/day in the next week, I suspect some sort of closure is going to be imposed on the city as whole. It's just a question whether it is, at the start, a strong or weakish closure.

 

We are still on partial closure but the sports centres will close again and school and Uni will remain closed. There's already a voluntary thinning of social contact unlike Western countries who for some, still think of partying more. Some locals are still having weddings with the traditional banquets. Scaled down but still a danger IMHO.

 

1 hour ago, 889 said:

New York State has just ordered a moderately strong closure, with the governor warning it's a matter of months, not weeks.

 

Yeah, don't pull any punches with expectations. Just get people expecting worse and anything sooner is an unexpected benefit.

[StChris]

4 hours ago, abcdefg said:

Interesting. Had been wondering if this crisis might trigger an uptick in xenophobia. 

 

I saw a wechat post the other day from a Canadian friend complaining about being avoided, denied entry into stores etc. I haven't experienced anything like that myself though. For those currently outside China, it might be a good idea to say outside for the time being. Apart from the lack of flights, the attempt to shift the focus from any domestic culpability for this crisis towards anti-American conspiracy theories in the media could possibly lead to more xenophobia. 

 

You're probably better off staying in Texas for now.

[StChris]

5 hours ago, ChTTay said:

The “volunteers” who check temperature and passes at my apartment gate have already started singling out foreign residents.

 

At some of the places I have been going they don't really bother checking anymore, they just tell me to write "36.7" or whatever. I've only been encountering the usual friendly conversations about where I'm from etc.

 

I think in the age of social media it's easy to wrongly think that this kind of discrimination is more widespread than it is (same with the endless images of empty supermarket shelves, masked people etc). That's not to say that it isn't unpleasant for the individuals experiencing it.

[ChTTay]

Well, “singled out” has negative connotations ... actually it’s just they apply the rules to me always. Whereas many local people they don’t bother looking at the ID at all. They do sometimes though. I am mostly always asked when on foot. Hardly ever asked when riding my 小牛 bike. 
 

Edit: literally just after this I got a notice asking me to go get a new pass. I assumed it would be one with a photo so they don’t always have to check my passport ... and I was right! I also think that half the time they had no idea what they were looking at when they were looking at my passport info anyway. Now all they do is compare my face to my photo. 

[StChris]

Has anybody here managed to register with the 健康码 system? I always get stuck at the 身份证号 stage, as it rejects my passport number. I guess it only accepts Chinese IDs. Without it I always have to join the pen and paper queue with the old men and women.

[Monty Keys]

2 hours ago, ChTTay said:

Well, “singled out” has negative connotations ... actually it’s just they apply the rules to me always

 

I get what you mean. They always check me in and out not matter who is there or how busy they may be. However, it seems to be more of "just doing their job". 

 

Wherever, I've gone in Beijing which has required me to sign in, submit to a temperature check or register; so far, I've been met with courtesy and co-operation. I sense they are surprised by my willingness to go along with the restrictions and my poor attempts to communicate using my limited Chinese speaking abilities.

 

But foreigners are definitely under more scrutiny; especially when there are Chinese standing around outside entrances spitting on the sidewalk, smoking and coughing without covering their noses/mouths. 

[abcdefg]

6 hours ago, StChris said:

For those currently outside China, it might be a good idea to say outside for the time being. Apart from the lack of flights, the attempt to shift the focus from any domestic culpability for this crisis towards anti-American conspiracy theories in the media could possibly lead to more xenophobia. 

 

You're probably better off staying in Texas for now.

 

Yes, I agree, this seems like the most rational plan.  

[Ruben von Zwack]

Being the German federal state worst affected (neighbouring Austria and with close ties to Italy), Bavaria put a curfew into place from last night on, for the next 14 days. It is nothing like the Chinese measures [edit: I should have said, "like the original Wuhan measures". Please see ChTTays reply below] though, you can
- see a doctor when needed (cosmetic surgeries etc. are suspended)
- buy food and hygiene articles for everyday life
- buy food for your pet(s) and take them to a veterinarian
- go to work (if you can't do home office)
- take walks outside, and walk your dog, but only on your own, or with one person who lives in your household anyway

Curiously, while my day job is in tech/media, I had begun helping out in a small regional produce store in my neighbourhood lately, simply for fun and because I was bored at the weekends. And now, suddenly, I find myself one of the few with what appears to be a safe job and income over the next months.
I was given this paper that I'm supposed to carry with my passport. Fines for breaching the curfew are high, between 2,000 and 26,000 €. The paper says:
"The above employee works in our business and has to attend his duties that are necessary for supplying food to the population".
 

Edited March 22, 2020 at 10:16 AM by Ruben von Zwack
ChTTay pointed out that "the" Chinese measures were exactly like I described

[ChTTay]

8 hours ago, Ruben von Zwack said:

It is nothing like the Chinese measures though,

Let’s not be too broad with that brush. If you’re in quarantine for 14 days then, at the moment, you’re really In quarantine and can’t leave. This is because you’ve just come back to China or have symptoms.

 

However, I’ve been able to do all of the above things you list the whole time apart from go to work. When I returned to Beijing in January the 

advice was pretty much to stay indoors as much as possible. Which we did apart from doing a lot the things you list! If I did work in an office I would probably be back by now. 

[StChris]

Although filmed in Nanjing, the anti-virus measure there look pretty much the same as those in Harbin. The best video I've seen describing the situation in China. Highly recommended (youtube):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfsdJGj3-jM&feature=emb_logo

[Flickserve]

@StChris

 

thanks for the link. Very interesting video.

[Ruben von Zwack]

9 hours ago, ChTTay said:

Let’s not be too broad with that brush.

You are right, ChTTay! Thank you for reminding me to use my words more precisely. I had the measures originally taken in Wuhan in mind, not measures in cities like Beijing etc.

[Lu]

On 3/21/2020 at 2:48 AM, Shelley said:

Really hope he has to spend 14 days in quarantine in a cheap hotel with no room service.

I just love this curse. I hope we can keep it in circulation after the current crisis.

[889]

If you've been reading in the Chinese press about the near-miraculous way the Chinese government has brought local infections down to near zero, you might also want to read this report from RTHK, Hong Kong's public broadcaster.

 

"Wuhan denying virus tests to keep numbers down"

[roddy]

There were plenty of reports of busy beaches and hills over the weekend, London still busy. People did seem to go a bit mad - national park and mountain rescue staff were reporting extraordinarily busy weekends. Food and drink outlets realised they couldn't stay open and maintain social distancing, even without any chairs and tables.

 

And so... UK's on lockdown. You should go out once for food, once for exercise, and have a damned good reason for any other expeditions. Non-essential shops closed, with a bit of bickering to come about what's essential. 

 

I'm now game-planing how to use my daily exercise - normally I like to get it in early, but midday might be warmer and brighter. Though I'd like to make it a lengthy session (no rules yet on that, I think) and that'd take a chunk out of the working day. Evening - sun's still setting at 6:30 here, so that doesn't really work. 

 

Supermarkets are still odd. It's minor inconveniences for me, like no fresh basil and wanting onions but coming away with shallots, although I've seen little pasta and no toilet roll for some days. We maintain a healthy store cupboard anyway, but this has got to be awful for those living payday to payday - will payday come, and will there be pasta and veg in the shop if it does? 

 

The structure of food eating has changed so much. The UK eats out of the house a lot (sandwiches and fast food, alongside restaurants) so the supermarkets now have to supply those meals. And I'd imagine there's a shift away from prepared meals as folk have the time to actually cook, and know with a surprising degree of confidence that everyone is in for dinner.

[ChTTay]

8 hours ago, 889 said:

If you've been reading in the Chinese press about the near-miraculous way the Chinese government has brought local infections down to near zero, you might also want to read this report from RTHK, Hong Kong's public broadcaster.

 

Is it not also true that countries around the world are just not testing those with mild symptoms anymore?  I am not refuting what's in that article in particular, especially as it lists at risk patients with severe symptoms. 

 

In the UK if you have (mild) symptoms you're asked to self-quarantine. I am fairly sure the US and other countries are going the same way. They quickly realised they just don't have the resources for mass testing and the spread of the virus is already too far along. 

 

 

[杰.克]

4 minutes ago, ChTTay said:

Is it not also true that countries around the world are just not testing those with mild symptoms anymore?

 

This is the case in the UK as far as I understand. You are only tested if you are in the severe category having entered hospital. Majority of people are asked to stay at home, and will not be tested.

[Lu]

The Netherlands is also barely testing. Although a few Northern provinces are now tracking their own course and trying to test more people. I've made my peace with the fact that I'll never know if I've had it.

 

However, the difference is that the UK and the Netherlands are not claiming to have zero new infections while not testing anyone, and I trust my government to never claim that. Once it goes away. they'll likely make a statement along the lines of 'no new cases *found*.'

 

Meanwhile, not to rub it into anyone's face, but I'm so glad we have a serious and capable government. I disagree with our prime minister on so many counts when it comes to social policy and economics and whatnot, and the powers that be made some choices early on in this epidemic that I believe were not the best, but at the moment the government and the prime minister are doing what they can to manage the situation and are informing the public in a serious and fact-based way. That is not a given and I am grateful for it.