Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[ChTTay]

7 hours ago, pan.kasper said:

wow, that's not cheap at all. I had a friend who had to go throught the quarantine back in March, but then it was only about 100 per day for the hotel. It was in Hangzhou by the way, so prices may vary depending on the location. Which city are you staying in?

Pre-border closure you had a choice of hotel at different price points. Now there is no choice. You just get taken to your hotel and have to pay. It might vary a bit from city to city but I doubt it will be too much different. Especially as there are so few flights that most people end up flying into the same transit city (like Shanghai) then being taken to the same hotel with people going to the same final destination. 

[Saxondale]

16 hours ago, pan.kasper said:

wow, that's not cheap at all. I had a friend who had to go throught the quarantine back in March, but then it was only about 100 per day for the hotel. It was in Hangzhou by the way, so prices may vary depending on the location. Which city are you staying in?

I'm in Shanghai - the price seems to be inline with most of the other quarantine hotels here. I think Shanghai will remain the main hub for international flights for the next few months.

[mungouk]

Hi @Saxondale,

Would you mind sharing how the health code APPs work?  

I heard that you need to apply for an Alipay one 14 days before you enter China, is that right?  (i.e. even before you get your COVID test done at home)

 

[Saxondale]

40 minutes ago, mungouk said:

Would you mind sharing how the health code APPs work?  

I heard that you need to apply for an Alipay one 14 days before you enter China, is that right?  (i.e. even before you get your COVID test done at home)

The one 14 days prior to departure is for Chinese Nationals (at the moment...) only. Foreigners only need to fill out the health declaration form which gets sent to the Chinese Embassy/Consulate and the online form (http://health.customsapp.com/home/pages/healthDeclare/declare.html) on the day of departure - this will generate a QR code. Once you're in China, you'll need to download health kit apps on WeChat/Alipay:

• Arrival city app - Shanghai in my case. Although, if you don't intend on sticking around in your arrival city i don't think it's needed. The hotel will give you quarantine release papers so you'll still be able to travel around.
• Final destination app - and Beijing (北京健康宝）

No one at the airport tells you to do any of this. 

 

[mungouk]

OK I guess each province has its own system...

 

Currently my work admin person (in Hangzhou) is telling me I need to register on this "Zhejiang Health Code for Foreigners" page at https://portal.zjzwfw.gov.cn/portal/healthCode/report/login

 

Which looks like this:

 

 

I was also given an Alipay QR code to scan, which takes me into a mini-program that's all in Chinese.  Presumably don't need to set that up until we arrive?

 

[Saxondale]

49 minutes ago, mungouk said:

Presumably don't need to set that up until we arrive?

You don't have to right now but i would recommend keeping an eye out for any changes. 

[Flickserve]

In a bit of bad news, you can be reinfected with Covid-19 even after a short time frame. Similar to the common cold coronavirus. That puts paid to the herd immunity hypothesis. 

 

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3098551/hong-kongs-third-wave-losing-momentum-city 

[mungouk]

Significant update for the IATA China travel advisory today (24 Aug)... this now mentions "green QR code" for non-nationals of China, which is new.

 

I haven't seen anything out there yet which states where you're supposed to get this code from... anyone spotted anything?

 

Is it maybe the web page at http://health.customsapp.com/ ...? 

 

But presumably there needs to be some human intervention to verify your negative COVID test before the green code can be issued?

 

 

 

Quote

 

Published 24.08.2020

 

1. The mainland of China has decided to temporarily suspend the entry into the mainland of China by foreign nationals holding visas or residence permits still valid at the time of this announcement, effective from 00:00 local time, 28 March 2020. Entry by foreign nationals with APEC Business Travel Cards will be suspended as well.

 

- Policies including port visas, 24/72/144-hour visa-free transit policy, Hainan 30-day visa-free policy, 15-day visa-free policy specified for foreign cruise-group-tour through Shanghai Port, Guangdong 144-hour visa-free policy specified for foreign tour groups from Hong Kong or Macao SAR, and Guangxi 15-day visa-free policy specified for foreign tour groups of ASEAN countries will also be temporarily suspended. Entry with diplomatic, service, courtesy or C visas will not be affected. 

- Foreign nationals coming to the mainland of China for necessary economic, trade, scientific or technological activities or out of emergency humanitarian needs may apply for visas at Chinese embassies or consulates.

- Entry by foreign nationals with visas issued outside the Mainland of China after 28 March 2020 are not affected.

- Entry by foreign nationals with residence permit issued outside the Mainland of China after 28 March 2020 are not affected.

 

2. Passengers arriving at Beijing (PEK), Guangzhou (CAN), Shanghai Hongqiao (SHA), Shanghai Pudong (PVG), Shenzhen (SZX) or Xiamen (XMN) are subject to medical screening and quarantine for 14 days.

 

3. Airline crew of foreign airlines:

- are not required to undergo nucleic acid test if they have a short stay after landing then depart immediately, and do not leave apron during the transition; OR

- shall receive nucleic acid test in the first port of entry if they need to enter the country to rest or continue to operate domestic routes. The test results will be confirmed by the local government in accordance with the requirements of epidemic prevention management. Only if the test results are negative, crews can continue the operations; OR

- are allowed to return to their home country for isolation treatment when agreed by the local joint control mechanism, if they are symptomatic, in close contact with infected persons or tested positive. Airlines and crews shall make all commitments to bear their responsibilities and also carry out strict protections.

 

4. A completed "Health Declaration Form" must be presented upon arrival. The form can be obtained before departure at http://health.customsapp.com/ .

 

5. Passengers who are arriving from or have transited through Bangladesh, Belgium, Cambodia, Cameroon, Chad, Congo, Cyprus, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gambia, Guinea, Iran, Kenya, Korea (Rep.), Luxembourg, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritania, Niger, North Macedonia (Rep.), Pakistan, Russian Fed., Rwanda, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, United Kingdom or Zimbabwe must have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) nucleic acid test result issued at most 5 days before departure. They must also have a green QR code with an 'HS' mark or a Health Declaration Form issued by a Chinese embassy or consulate before departure.

 

6. Nationals of China (People's Rep.) who are arriving from or have transited through Australia, Austria, Brazil, Canada, Czechia, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland (Rep.), Israel, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Philippines, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland or USA must present a green QR code before departure. The QR code can be generated from:

- declaring the health status for 14 days in the Wechat mimi program "FANG YI JIAN KANG MA GUO JI BAN", or

- uploading a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) nucleic acid test result issued at most 5 days before departure. 

 

7. Effective 25 August 2020, passengers who are arriving from or have transited through Nepal or United Arab Emirates must have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) nucleic acid test result issued at most 5 days before departure. They must also have a green QR code with an 'HS' mark or a Health Declaration Form issued by a Chinese embassy or consulate.

 

8. Effective 26 August 2020, passengers who are arriving from or have transited through Benin, Bulgaria or Indonesia must have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) nucleic acid test result issued at most 5 days before departure. They must also have a green QR code with an 'HS' mark or a Health Declaration Form issued by a Chinese embassy or consulate.

 

9. Effective 28 August 2020, passengers who are arriving from or have transited through Belarus, Ireland (Rep.), Italy or Singapore must have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) nucleic acid test result issued at most 5 days before departure. They must also have a green QR code with an 'HS' mark or a Health Declaration Form issued by a Chinese embassy or consulate.

 

10. Effective 29 August 2020, passengers who are arriving from or have transited through Qatar must have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) nucleic acid test result issued at most 5 days before departure. They must also have a green QR code with an 'HS' mark or a Health Declaration Form issued by a Chinese embassy or consulate.

 

 

[xinoxanu]

3 hours ago, Flickserve said:

In a bit of bad news, you can be reinfected with Covid-19 even after a short time frame. Similar to the common cold coronavirus. That puts paid to the herd immunity hypothesis. 

 

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3098551/hong-kongs-third-wave-losing-momentum-city 

 

A couple months back this was already being discussed as a possibility and, after all, the flu shot "only" protects you for "1 year" tops and we built a whole system around it. Totally not saying it's the same but, all things considered, a protection cycle of "6 months", either via natural immunity or a vaccine, would be a great head-start. 

 

Also, Spain? Come on! Of all places he had to holiday in there? By far the worst country in the whole of Europe when it comes to the handling of the pandemic... and where you can literally get 凌迟 by a thousand coughs.

[Demonic_Duck]

3 hours ago, Flickserve said:

a bit of bad news, you can be reinfected with Covid-19 even after a short time frame. Similar to the common cold coronavirus. That puts paid to the herd immunity hypothesis. 

 

I don't think it puts paid to the idea of herd immunity in its proper sense (if ~70% of population become immune, then it doesn't matter if the remaining 30% aren't). I guess it adds yet another knife in the long-dead corpse of the UK government's mythical """herd immunity""", though.

[Insectosaurus]

8 minutes ago, xinoxanu said:

A couple months back this was already being discussed as a possibility and, after all, the flu shot "only" protects you for "1 year" tops and we built a whole system around it. Totally not saying it's the same but, all things considered, a protection cycle of "6 months", either via natural immunity or a vaccine, would be a great head-start. 

 

An immunologist from Karolinska (Sweden's top medicinal university) said today that this is pretty good news, considering he was badly ill the first time, but asymptomatic this time.

[Lu]

21 minutes ago, timseb said:

An immunologist from Karolinska (Sweden's top medicinal university) said today that this is pretty good news, considering he was badly ill the first time, but asymptomatic this time.

That seems a rather narrow way of looking at it ('it was good in my case, therefore it is good'). Not very scientific, even.

[Insectosaurus]

22 minutes ago, Lu said:

That seems a rather narrow way of looking at it ('it was good in my case, therefore it is good'). Not very scientific, even.

 

The point was made rather clear: it seems to support what has so far been the most expected and is expected with most similar viruses: people who get the infection more once than tend to not get it as badly as the first time. His point was that the news are certainly more good than bad and that few have expected a very long complete immunity. That we still don't know everything about the virus goes without saying.

[Dawei3]

31 minutes ago, timseb said:

expected with most similar viruses:

Whether one infection from Covid-19 gives you protection from 2nd infections is still something we need to learn.  That one person apparently got a 2nd infection doesn't tell us much.  Similar things happen with vaccines, i.e., even the best vaccines don't protect 100% of the individuals.

 

Also, responses can vary.  The inactive polio vaccine protects the patient from getting sick from exposure to polio, but does not stop the patient from getting the virus and transmitting it to others.  

 

With Covid-19, we're still learning about how long immunity lasts when one is exposed.  With 23,400,000 having been infected, data from one person doesn't provide much insight.  To pick a number out-of-the air, even if 99% of people are protected long-term, 234,000 (1%) would not be.  We need lots more data to know whether 1st exposure protects 1%, 5%, 99% of people from a 2nd exposure and for how long that protection lasts. 

 

 

[Insectosaurus]

I have zero interest in arguing immunology, since I'm not an immunologist, so I'm backing out here. I just wanted to share some information.

[Saxondale]

12 hours ago, mungouk said:

I haven't seen anything out there yet which states where you're supposed to get this code from... anyone spotted anything?

 

Is it maybe the web page at http://health.customsapp.com/ ...? 

 

Hmm interesting...i still think you only need the certified document from the Embassy/Consulate. Completing the form on http://health.customsapp.com/ generates a QR code but doesn't change colour.

[abcdefg]

On 8/24/2020 at 1:48 PM, mungouk said:

6. Nationals of China (People's Rep.) who are arriving from or have transited through Australia, Austria, Brazil, Canada, Czechia, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland (Rep.), Israel, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Philippines, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland or USA must present a green QR code before departure. The QR code can be generated from:

- declaring the health status for 14 days in the Wechat mimi program "FANG YI JIAN KANG MA GUO JI BAN", or

- uploading a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) nucleic acid test result issued at most 5 days before departure. 

 

I'm very glad for the forum members who have reentered China from the UK.  Have any forum members from the USA reentered China? I don't recall seeing any reports in this thread, but could have just missed them. 

 

Since I live in Texas, I've also been following the issue of which Chinese Consulate will take over the workload of the Houston (Texas) Consulate which was recently closed down. 

 

Here's an announcement from the Chinese Embassy addressing that issue. I would anticipate that consular affairs going through the main Embassy (such as visas) will be slowed down by this abrupt consolidation, but I don't know that to be true from any first-hand reports.

 

The Statement of the Chinese Embassy in the United States for Taking Over the Consular Jurisdiction of the Consulate-General in Houston

2020/07/24

 

 

Quote

 

On July 21, the US abruptly demanded that the Chinese Consulate-General in Houston cease all operations and events within a time limit. This decision seriously violates international law, basic norms governing international relations and the Consular Convention Between China and the United States. China strongly condemns and firmly opposes this move that sabotages China-US relations, and urges the US side to immediately revoke its erroneous decision.

The Chinese Embassy and Consulates-General in the United States have always been committed to the healthy and stable development of China-US relations, to China-US exchanges and cooperation and to the two peoples' friendship. The US move has seriously damaged the regular exchanges and cooperation between the people of the southern part of the United States and China and their right for consular services from the Chinese government. It is completely against the people's will.

Taking into account of the desire and needs of the southern part of the US for continued exchanges and cooperation with China and the practical difficulties that may come up, the Chinese Embassy in the United States will temporarily take over the work of the Consulate-General in Houston, and continue the various services for the people in the consular district.

Please contact the Embassy or the Call Center for Consular Assistance and Protection of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs for any need of consular assistance.

Telephone numbers for consular protection and assistance of the Chinese Embassy and Consulates-General

The Embassy:+1-202-4952216

 

 

Source: http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/zmgxss/t1800766.htm

[mungouk]

3 hours ago, abcdefg said:

Have any forum members from the USA reentered China?

 

Apparently the American Chamber of Commerce (AmCham) in Shanghai is chartering a flight from San Francisco on 12 September. 

 

https://www.amchamchina.org/news/amcham-chinas-first-charter-flight-on-its-way

 

Unlike the BritCham one organised for around the same time it's not open to just anyone who can pay, but I guess it's a step in the right direction.

 

btw in case it's not obvious, clause 6 in that IATA advisory above (mentioning USA) is referring to Chinese nationals, but then again most of it's about departure/transit points rather than citizenship. 

 

I guess for Yunnan you'd be looking at transiting in South Korea, Thailand, Singapore etc...?

 

 

[mungouk]

Meanwhile @abcdefg — thinking of you all in Texas and Louisiana!

A Cat 4 hurricane arriving in the middle of this pandemic doesn't bear thinking about.  Stay safe!

[abcdefg]

On 8/26/2020 at 4:01 PM, mungouk said:

A Cat 4 hurricane arriving in the middle of this pandemic doesn't bear thinking about.  Stay safe!

 

Thanks. I'm pretty far from the coast (in NE Texas) so it should not be too bad (famous last words.) 

 

And you're right about these minor opening-ups 改革开放 being a step in the right direction. They at least provide a small glimmer of hope. I've paid my Kunming apartment rent (at a reduced rate) through the middle of December in hopes that I can at least make a short visit, collect my stuff, tell friends goodbye, etc.  

 

Till then I still have a refugee or "displaced person" mindset. Rudely uprooted from my home in China and shipwrecked on the distant shores of this odd and savage place where people eat strange meals, huge portions, often fried and sweet, don't drink tea, don't buy killed-to-order chickens or fish and garden-fresh vegetables are a rarity. Produce is usually wrapped in plastic. 

 

They don't get foot massages or other ancient healing therapies; instead relying on costly pills. The natives of this New World drive their cars everywhere instead of walking or riding a bike. Forty percent of them are obese. It's an epidemic. 

 

A third of them refuse vaccinations for themselves and their children because of quasi-religious beliefs. It won't matter if a magically-effective COVID vaccine is synthesized and proven safe tomorrow. Most locals don't even get Flu shots and their kids are promped to ignore measles and mumps. After all, vaccination is as bogus as climate change. Masks are still uncommon; they are part of a communist/liberal plot to steal our precious freedoms.