Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[Insectosaurus]

28 minutes ago, xinoxanu said:

and on a sino-centric forum at that

 

Interesting thought. So on a hypothetical Persian-Forums, it would be silly of me to back out from discussing wether or not it's a good thing to hang gays from cranes?

[roddy]

Is this you "light trolling" again, xinoxano. Little bit of bait in a casual aside you know someone will take? Because that's what it looks like.

[xinoxanu]

1 minute ago, timseb said:

36 minutes ago, xinoxanu said:

and on a sino-centric forum at that

 

Interesting thought. So on a hypothetical Persian-Forums, it would be silly of me to back out from discussing wether or not it's a good thing to hang gays from cranes?

 

Lol.

 

First, if your original comment was meant as backing out from discussion because you don't want to partake on it, then by all means, do that. 

 

This example is quite aggressive though, chill.

[xinoxanu]

20 hours ago, roddy said:

Is this you "light trolling" again, xinoxano. Little bit of bait in a casual aside you know someone will take? Because that's what it looks like.

 

No, why would you think that?

 

But, once again, what are you referring to? 

 

Regardless, I think it's pretty obvious when I am trolling someone. I can't possibly see how any of the comments I've made today can be understood as such.

 

PS: And @roddy, please do be clear on this. I mean, don't just simply discredit my totally valid comments as "trolling" and then don't provide an explanation for doing that. Again, I am serious: I am not trolling nor seeking attention, etc. Nevertheless, for some reason you are always antagonising me and I can't quite put my finger on why. I am fine taking this to the PMs as well, although at this point keeping things public would be better since the cat is already out of the bag. 

 

PPS: Yeah, as expected, no comment at all. Same old, same old.

[Balthazar]

7 hours ago, mungouk said:

They are prioritising front-line health workers, elderly people and I think people working in cold supply-chains. Possibly teachers. Approach varies by province.

 

Are elderly people being vaccinated in China? My parents-in-law (in their 50s and 60s) aren't scheduled to get a vaccination anytime soon. My impression was that health workers and young people (but not children) were going to be prioritized, partially due to safety concerns for the youngest and senior population.

[Jim]

8 hours ago, Balthazar said:

Are elderly people being vaccinated in China?

The vaccine available in our area (suburban Beijing) is specifically not being given to older people, over 70s excluded IIRC, not entirely sure of the reason, think it might be medical rather than a question of priorities.

[mungouk]

OK maybe "elderly" is the wrong word but I thought I'd read on TheBeijinger WeChat that they were starting with older people plus certain priority groups (such as Didi and Waimai drivers) and working downwards age-wise. (I can never seem to find things again once I've read them on WeChat.)

Edit: My memory is quite likely wrong on this. See below.

 

Health workers, military and other priority groups were among the first to be vaccinated IIRC when the vaccines were still only approved for "emergency use".

 

In other countries, not vaccinating over a certain age seems to be related to the demographics of the various trial subjects (for example, caution due to insufficient over-65s involved to be certain that it's safe for them), but certainly there have been a lot of U-turns on this by plenty of governments over the past month or so.

Edit: It seems the Sinopharm vaccine is approved for ages 18-59 and, in Beijing at least, residents (citizens?) can register to get the jab for free.

 

There's also a CGTN report here: Live: Mass COVID-19 vaccination underway in Beijing (for some reason this starts at 1:09)

 

China’s Vaccination Total Hits 52 Million Doses

Caixin Global App, Mar 04, 2021 

 

Quote

 

China has sufficient Covid-19 vaccine production capacity, but the pace of vaccination is of “great concern,” Zhang Wenhong, a top epidemiologist, said Monday.
 

According to epidemiologist Zhong Nanshan, China is planning to vaccinate 40% of its population by end of June.

 

 

 

[mungouk]

On 3/9/2021 at 8:28 PM, mungouk said:

Chinese citizens only right now

 

TheBeijinger have done some digging and it seems this app is not for foreigners.

 

Vaccine Passport: What Is It and Can I Have One? (Hint: No)

12 March

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/38thOJmaerraTS1NqldGuQ

[Jim]

Yes, village committee informed us of vaccination programme but only wife eligible, kids too young, grandad who happened to be visiting and got caught by lockdown too old and me a foreigner.

[mungouk]

Constantly evolving situation this...

 

From Shekou Daily, 13 March (WeChat):

 

BREAKING NEWS: Some Vaccinated Foreigners Can Now Enter China

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/XGAnRdNmV0-hwlvuy1sK6A

 

Quote

In yet another sign that life for foreigners in China may be returning to normal soon, the Chinese embassy in Hong Kong issued a notice yesterday stating that foreigners there who have been vaccinated with the Chinese COVID vaccine can start returning to China from March 15th.

 

It also reports that the UK Visa Application Centre in London has announced it will re-open for visa applications again from this Tuesday, 16 March.

 

So, things are creeping forward.

 

Incidentally the article also quotes the Shenzhen vaccination policy which lists the 9 categories of Chinese citizens that are (were?) prioritised for vaccination, but which I couldn't find earlier:

 

Quote

 

1, import cold chain logistics related personnel

2, isolation site staff

3, immigration personnel closed-loop management practitioners

4, customs border control personnel

5. Cross-boundary drivers and connecting drivers from the Mainland

6, medical and health personnel

7, grass-roots epidemic prevention personnel

8, public transport practitioners

9, for business reasons to go abroad to work and study personnel

 

 

[carlo]

It looks as if this announcement may be specifically aimed at HKers, as in HK you are allowed to choose which vaccine you want at the time of booking: either the Sinovac or Biontech vaccine. Many foreign residents of HK have been staying away from the Sinovac option, and there's a lot of uncertainty as to what countries you will be allowed to enter based on what vaccine you choose. So this is likely to change the calculation of some HK-based expats, as being able to enter mainland China is a prerequisite for having a job in many cases (eg MNCs covering China from HK)

 

Quote

the Chinese embassy in Hong Kong

*cough* the Commissioner of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the HK SAR

 

Edit: AFAIK Fosun also have a license to manufacture Comirnaty, but I don't think the current batch is made in China. The notice just says 中国生产的新冠肺炎疫苗

[Takeshi]

I see this news now, but I already am booked to take the BioNTech/Fosun vaccine tomorrow.

 

Oh well...

[Flickserve]

That’s for “foreign” residents but unclear about permanent residents.

[Takeshi]

I am a "foreign" resident, so the regulations basically apply to me. Chinese citizens (whether or not they are permanent residents of HK) are allowed in China anyway, without any stipulation to be vaccinated. They have to quarantine, but nowhere do I see this regulation says foreigners vaccinated with the Chinese vaccine don't have to quarantine. So I assume you still have to quarantine.

[Guest realmayo]

Chinese-made vaccine requirement not just specific to HK any more:

 

Quote

China is resuming visa processing for foreigners from dozens of countries, but only if they have been inoculated against Covid-19 with a Chinese-made vaccine.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/china-to-allow-foreign-visitors-who-have-had-chinese-made-vaccine

 

And from the Chinese embassy in the UK:
 

Quote

2. Please be noted that the above-mentioned visa facilitation applies only to applicants who have been inoculated with COVID-19 vaccines produced in China, having either received two doses of Chinese-made vaccines with the stipulated gap in between, or received a single-dose Chinese-made vaccine at least 14 days prior to the application, and obtained the vaccination certificate.

 

http://www.chinese-embassy.org.uk/eng/visa/notice/t1861235.htm

[ptyfriend]

Yeah, but is any EU country buying Chinese vaccines? Feels pointless to add that when people in the EU don’t have access to the Chinese vaccine. 

[mungouk]

4 hours ago, ptyfriend said:

EU country buying Chinese vaccines?

 

Hungary is using the Sinopharm one and Poland is considering one of the Chinese vaccines, but the EU medicines regulator hasn't approved any of them.

 

 

[roddy]

Piece in the NYT on the travel restrictions and consequences. 

Quote

Foreign executives think China is likely to be one of the last countries in the world to fully reopen, perhaps as late as next year, after the Beijing Winter Olympics in February. 

 

[mungouk]

Foreigners in Shanghai May Book for COVID-19 Vaccination

I Love Shanghai WeChat, 23 March

 

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/lLMyTb1NCg4I3jGmHMhhHA 

 

Quote

 

Shanghai will start appointment-based COVID-19 vaccination for foreigners in the city pursuant to the Joint Prevention and Control Mechanism of the State Council. 

 

Starting from March 29, 2021, Shanghai will include the foreigners of appropriate ages in the city into the program of getting the domestically-developed COVID-19 vaccine (in the marketing stage) on the basis that they are informed, voluntary and willing to be inoculated at their own costs and bear corresponding risks. 
 

Those foreigners who are willing to be inoculated may book the vaccination appointment online via Jiankang Yun (Health Cloud) APP, and each will receive in total two doses of domestically-developed inactivated vaccine now available in Shanghai. Those who have been covered by China’s medical insurance are entitled to the same treatment as that to the insured Chinese citizens. Those who have not been insured should bear the cost of RMB 100 per dose on their own.

[ continues...]

 

 

[Dawei3]

On 3/18/2021 at 7:23 PM, ptyfriend said:

EU country buying Chinese vaccines? Feels pointless to add that when people in the EU don’t have access to the Chinese vaccine.

Chinese vaccine makers first need to apply for approval of their vaccines with the European Medicines Agency (EMA) in the EU, FDA in the US and similar agencies around the world.  However, they haven't tried - likely because they lack sufficient data to show safety & efficacy.  Although companies like Sinopharm have claimed their vaccines cause no adverse effects, anyone with any training vaccines knows this is lie.  

https://apnews.com/article/china-vaccines-worldwide-0382aefa52c75b834fbaf6d869808f51

 

In Europe, Serbia & Hungary are giving Chinese vaccines to their populations, but these countries aren't part of the EU, so they don't need EMA approval.  Other places in the world who allow the use of Chinese vaccines have little approval process.  Indonesia is one.  

 

While China makes many products well, vaccines isn't one of them.  Vaccines are one of the most problematic products in China.  In some years, an article on fake vaccines, poor quality vaccines or other problems with vaccines have appeared almost every other week in the South China Morning Post.  The above article notes that in 2018, 2 of China's largest vaccine makers falsified data to sell vaccines.  More details are here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31695-7/fulltext  

 

In contrast, in the West vaccines have the highest quality of almost any product.  In the US, FDA tests the potency of EVERY batch of a vaccine.  Also, data on safety & efficacy are readily available.  If you want to see the data on Pfizer's, Moderna's or JNJ's covid vaccine, you can get it from FDA's website.  In contrast, Chinese vaccine companies and China's National Medical Production Assoc (formerly called Chinese FDA) have released very very little on their vaccines.  The lack of concern about vaccine quality is also reflected in that China started injecting its citizens with vaccines even before it had approved them.  The NYT noted they haven't even completed safety & effectiveness trials (called Phase III), yet they are vaccinating the population:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/business/china-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html

 

The NYT notes "Last week, Sinopharm’s chairman, Liu Jingzhen, announced that some 100,000 people have taken the company’s vaccine and none have shown any adverse reactions so far."  Zero adverse reactions.  Zero.  This just doesn't happen.  In the studies of the Pfizer & Modern vaccines, more than 33% of participants receiving the placebo reported adverse reactions (and they just got placebos).  To achieve zero adverse actions, Sinopharm must have done close to zero surveillance of those receiving the vaccines.  Considering that Sinopharm was found in 2018 to be shipping substandard vaccines, yet their Chairman still makes comments like this, shows data & quality are of unfortunately little concern.