Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[abcdefg]

That's great @sekkar-- I'm very glad you are finally free to move around more.  

[889]

Hong Kong's departing leader today pretty much put any re-opening of HK's border with Mainland China on the far back burner.

 

While this is hardly a surprise, it's the first time the Government has addressed the issue so frankly.

 

Of course this also confirms that re-opening of Mainland China generally to the world is simply not under contemplation for now.

 

[abcdefg]

Content moved to make a new thread, here: https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/62258-why-isnt-china-opening-up-again/ 

[889]

"Shanghai will briefly lock down almost everyone in the city this weekend for mass testing as Covid-19 cases continue to emerge, causing more disruption and triggering a renewed run on groceries days after exiting a grueling two-month shutdown. .  .  It encompasses almost all of the city’s 25 million residents . . ."

 

https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/3/191053/Shanghai-locked-down-for-the-weekend 

[sekkar]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:48 PM, 889 said:

triggering a renewed run on groceries

yeah, trust in the government is at an all time low.here I guess. Everyone still remembers how the 4 day lockdown turned into 2 months. This time they seemed to have kept their word though, at least all my friends in Pudong got let out after the tests.

 

Todays big covid news seems to be the bar in Beijing, where one fun might out turned into 100 positive cases and 6000 close contacts...

[Jim]

Daughter was due to start back at school Monday but now suspended again, probably thanks to that.

[Jan Finster]

Those that are currently in China: how bad is the situation with COVID? How are people coping?

 

According to a friend of mine, who lives in Shanghai, she and all her friends, family members and colleagues are sick with Omicron.....

[Insectosaurus]

On 12/26/2022 at 7:53 PM, Jan Finster said:

how bad is the situation with COVID?

 

While it is always interesting to hear from other's individual experiences, you will get a more coherent answer to your questions by following established media than from community anecdotes.

[Moshen]

Quote

While it is always interesting to hear from other's individual experiences, you will get a more coherent answer to your questions by following established media than from community anecdotes.

 

I'm not so sure about that.  We've seen a lot of instances where "established media" either underplay or exaggerate the real situation.  Sometimes the "established media" are limited in what they can observe or say.  Or they give the impression that what's true in one or two places is true everywhere.  I think a combination of "established media" and on-the-ground anecdotal information through informal channels is smart news consumption, when possible.

 

[Insectosaurus]

All risks you mention are true times a hundred for on the ground anecdotal information. When the covid waves were striking my own country I never heard of anyone ending up in hospital, not to mention dying. Still, the ICU:s were packed for months. Note that this is a country with press freedom and open data. On the ground anecdotes will most likely be even less reliable in a country without it. Anecdotal information is interesting as a window into our fellow members'  lives in China. They are not, however, a reliable source of information on the overall situation in China.

[alantin]

I agree with @Insectosaurus. I check out several western and asian non-chinese news media every day and on occasion some chinese news and discuss the with a couple of friends in China. I think this gives me a pretty good picture of what is going on but it is striking how the situation can vary in different places. When they were in lockdown in Shanghai and Changchun for weeks at a time, in Chongqing life was pretty normal. Now when covid is spreading like wildfire some haven’t really been affected in any way and weren’t worrying much about it while others have already had it and pretty bad too.

 

And I guess they don’t see the news about body bags filling corridors in hospitals in mainland news. Though some sent me news about people being asked to work even with covid if their symptoms are mild.

 

They bought three years of time with zero-covid but they didn’t use it to vaccinate the elderly, beef up the health care system, and prepare the people for an exit, so now it is an un-orderly exit and I pretty much have only one word for it. Tragic.

[Jim]

Couldn't even lay in stocks of generics like ibuprofen in advance of lifting the lockdown let alone sort out ICU provision, it's a pathetic shambles and is seen to be so by a wider swathe of the populous than usual IMO.

[alantin]

@Jimthe fever medication is a good case in point. Apparently at some point they began monitoring who bought any fever medication to catch anyone who might be avoiding the testing. That led to drop in demand, which in turn led to drop in production. And it seems no-one thought to do anything about it before removing all the restrictions and telling people that they are now responsible for their own health, which led to people rushing to panic buying the fever medications.

[Flickserve]

On 12/27/2022 at 3:52 PM, alantin said:

They bought three years of time with zero-covid but they didn’t use it to vaccinate the elderly, beef up the health care system, and prepare the people for an exit, so now it is an un-orderly exit and I pretty much have only one word for it. Tragic.

All those resources in the last year used for covid testing could have been better utilised…..

 

The only saving grace is omicron strikes fast  but the pain is over within two months.

 

I talked with a Beijing resident maybe about a year ago. She was firmly in the covid control camp and protect the elderly. I mentioned the point of repeated lockdowns and no endgame and she was adamant about maintaining control. 
 

Three weeks ago, I spoke again to her as the controls were being increased and increasingly ineffectual. This time wouldn’t answer me directly on the protect the elderly issue but repeated omicron wasn’t that dangerous and said people were in two camps with those advocating opening and the other still maintaining control. For her with young children being restricted to home and education affected, I guess she had had enough. 

[alantin]

On 12/27/2022 at 8:41 PM, Flickserve said:

 

The only saving grace is omicron strikes fast  but the pain is over within two months.

Remembering how we went through several waves here, actually still do have new waves, and many people have had covid several times, I personally doubt it’s going to be over in two months in China. Some Chinese expert was predicting one wave now, next one in January during the Spring Festival and a third one when people come back to work. I’m guessing there is going to be a new big wave four to six months later when the immunity from the first ones have waned out and some western experts have voiced expectations that the economy would really start to recover in the second half of 2023.

 

I personally don’t really see point in restricting Chinese travellers coming here because of covid because everyone here already has good resistance to it, but such restrictions make sense for Japan. They restricted incoming travelers when they were in a bigger risk to catch it Japan than elsewhere so of course now Chinese tourists are the biggest covid risk never mind covid has been spreading freely inside the country for the last two years.

[Guest realmayo]

On 12/27/2022 at 12:41 AM, Insectosaurus said:

They are not, however, a reliable source of information on the overall situation in China.

I suppose the point is that there are no sources of information currenly that are more reliable than anecdotal evidence, so either one agrees to live in complete ignorance, or one pays attention to those anecdotal evidences.

[abcdefg]

I always listen to anecdotal evidence, even though I don't take it as gospel. Actually, I could say the same thing about official news reports. 

[大块头]

@abcdefg I recall you saying you were an ER doctor, right? There have been some unsettling posts on Reddit recently showing what it's currently like in Chinese hospitals... I wonder if you have any thoughts.

[markhavemann]

On 12/30/2022 at 12:46 PM, 大块头 said:

There have been some unsettling posts on Reddit recently showing what it's currently like in Chinese hospitals...

To add my own two cents: Having been to the ER in Chinese hospitals at night time a few times pre covid, as well as during the last three years, this only looks marginally busier than normal I think (compared to the biggest, "best", most famous provincial hospital anyway). This is why I was always pro zero-covid. 

 

I can't comment much on the body bags though. Looks like a lot of yellow, hard to imagine those are normal numbers, but who knows... 

 

I wonder how things are progressing in other cities? Things are mostly going back to normal here in Chengdu. Seems like just about everyone has been sick and is mostly better now. People are excited to be getting back to life without healthcodes and a security guard and temperature check at every entrance to every public place.

 

Opening up was always coming but somebody dropped the ball big time by not pushing vaccines like they should have been pushed. I went to try get a booster shot about a month ago and they said I couldn't because I didn't have a Chinese ID card. After phoning around and being redirected about a million times I was told I could only get a vaccine if it's organised by my school, so I asked my school and they said they had already applied. I still haven't heard anything about the vaccine but luckily I'm currently in the process of receiving immunity the natural way so I don't even need it anymore... 

 

 

[Jan Finster]

On 12/30/2022 at 8:51 AM, markhavemann said:

Opening up was always coming but somebody dropped the ball big time by not pushing vaccines like they should have been pushed. I went to try get a booster shot about a month ago and they said I couldn't because I didn't have a Chinese ID card. After phoning around and being redirected about a million times I was told I could only get a vaccine if it's organised by my school, so I asked my school and they said they had already applied. I still haven't heard anything about the vaccine but luckily I'm currently in the process of receiving immunity the natural way so I don't even need it anymore... 

 

 I think it has dawned on everyone that the Chinese vaccine is not effective. This is the data we have from countries that bought the Chinese vaccine. Otherwise they would not be in that mess. Obviously they cannot important 2 billion shots of Moderna or Pfizer without losing face... Omikron is a much less problematic strain and most Chinese will likely be fine without the vaccine.