Sentence Structure

[Beo]

Hi everyone,

 

I saw these two sentences in an online course:

 

1.) 他们班的学生学习很努力。

 

Doesn't there have to be a 得 after 学习?: 学习得很努力

 

2.) 什么时候举行会议? 

 

On Chinese Grammar Wiki it says that the sentence structure for 什么时候 is: 

 

Subj. + 什么时候 + Predicate ?

 

So shouldn't it be?: 什么时候会议举行? 

 

Cheers Beo

[Xiao Kui]

For #1 I agree with you. I'm not sure whether 得 is absolutely necessary, but definitely  sounds more natural to me to connect verb & adverb. For #2, I think the subject is implied as 你们， 他们，or 我们。 So the example is correct.  Similar to the common question (你）什么时候上学/上班？ where the speaker is implying you as the subject.  So in the example 会议 is the object of the verb 举行 , not the subject - the subject is implied. 

 

Just my best educated guess. 

[889]

No.1 doesn't sound bad to me. I'm not a grammarian, so I don't know the formal rules, but there is a tendency to avoid a lot of des in a sentence unless they're absolutely necessary because they can make the sentence sound clumsy.

 

And there's no difficulty finding examples of this:

 

https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/591171134.html?qbl=relate_question_5  

 

 

[anonymoose]

11 hours ago, Beo said:

1.) 他们班的学生学习很努力。

 

Doesn't there have to be a 得 after 学习?: 学习得很努力

 

You definitely could have a 得 there.

 

Having said that, I have a feeling that rhythm is also at play here. 学习 and 努力 are both disyllabic, and it just sounds smoother to put the single syllable 很 between them rather than having two single syllables 得 and 很.

On the other hand, it would sound odd (to my non-native ears) to say 他们学很好, whereas 他们学得很好 sounds fine.

 

Another way of looking at would be to consider 他们班的学生 as a topic, and then 学习 as another (sub)topic. 学习 acting as a noun in this respect would naturally not warrant a 得.

 

11 hours ago, Beo said:

2.) 什么时候举行会议? 

 

On Chinese Grammar Wiki it says that the sentence structure for 什么时候 is: 

 

Subj. + 什么时候 + Predicate ?

 

So shouldn't it be?: 什么时候会议举行?

 

I think the key is that 会议 here is the object (of the verb 举行), as opposed to the subject. No subject has been explicitly stated in this sentence. Including the subject would give you something like 他们什么时候举行会议？ As you can see, this sentence now has the structure that you quoted.

[AaronUK]

if you have the 得 don't you need to move degree 很 to the end?

I just remember my Chinese teacher telling me it was more like 得努力很多

 

Would anyone be able to comment on the following versions?

 

他们班的学生上学很努力

他们班的学生学习学得努力很多

[Beo]

thanks a lot for your explanations guys!