Phonetics based system to learn characters and words adopted for English-speakers

[Pall]

Not exactly so. Basing on my experience I must say, that those largest seriese of characters with distinct radicals should be learnt in the last turn, because it'll be easy to distinguish characters relating to them. So, learning of three series from the first part, which includes the most frequent radicals, exept 'mouth' (this radical is not so distict, it's not only 'mouth' on the left), and eleven series of not so frequent characters (second part) should be postponed. Thus, the number of characters to be learnt compulsary becomes only 2,800 instead of 4,500. It's the third and the fourth parts plus unique characters and the 'mouth' series. Not such challenging a task I can say. 

 

As to the rest, these characters should be retyped in the anchore writting for the beginning with gradual replacement for real target characters.

[Pall]

In fact, it's necessary to learn only 140 most rare radical characters by this manner initially, in the bulk, maybe some 200 unique characters and 200 ones of 'mouth' radical in addition. It's the most difficult part. But it's only some 1,000-1,200 characters (or character-syllabals with respect to tone).

 

Since that moment 28 not so rare radical characters, 11 not so frequent radical ones plus 'tree", 'hand on the left' and "water on the left" characters remain to learn. They're not too numerous and all of them have distinct radicals that can be easily detected. So learning can be different. First of all it concerns about 1,300-1,400 characters of not so rare radicals. Each radical series of these is represented by 40-70 characters. It'll be better probably to learn them right by series, as a whole set. That'll provide more opportunity to compare them to each other. Cards might be kept in seperate piles by radicals. Also in this mode characters of 11 not so frequent radicals can be learnt, though with more difficulty since the series are of 100-150 characters each. And finally  three remaining the most frequent radicals can be covered. 

 

As to 'anchore writing' it can be used, too, simultaneously with learning parts 3, 2 ald 1. Thus, some three-four months are needed for a beginner to memorize 1,000-1,200 characters of rare numerous radicals, and, of course, 375 'anchore' characters before all that. Since then retyping and also rewriting materials by hand can be applied in order to learn words, word use, phrases and grammar while learning other characters.

[Pall]

@imron

Hi. Is it possible to make a software to type  these superscript indicies smoothly while typing characters? Maybe it's not for now, only when I can prove the efficiency of the method. In September 2019 I knew only about 250 words and 300 characters. I think if I can pass an official exam for a sufficiently high level in reasonable time it can be a good proof, can't it?

[imron]

Superscripts are usually a separate font, and input methods don’t typically have a way to change the font. 
 

There’s probably a way write software that will do this but imagine it would be quite involved. 

[Pall]

On 8/28/2020 at 6:05 AM, imron said:

it would be quite involved.

Involved what and where to? Perhapse you mean my involvement due to the difficulty?

[Pall]

 

@imron

If so, thank you. I think I could return to this discussion later next month.

[imron]

No I mean it would be more complicated than something like pinyinput, and would involve much more work.

 

Due to various reasons it’s also not something I would personally be able to be involved with (don’t have the time). 

[Pall]

On 8/30/2020 at 6:13 AM, imron said:

Due to various reasons it’s also not something I would personally be able to be involved with (don’t have the time). 

I see. Taking into account that it's not easy just to find qickly required character from the menu as typing, additional formatting of supetscript may be too inconvenient waste of time. Then I should probably do all that in hand-writting. It's only a pity that these texts cannot be used by others after me.

[Pall]

@imron

So, a program for smooth typing is not so crucially needed. Once one has learnt the rest of the 4,500 characters after deduction of (1) not so rear characters of 23 distinct radicals (series of 30-70 characters), (2) not so frequent radical characters (11 series of 70-150 characters) and (3) very frequent characters of 'tree', 'hand on the left' and 'water on the left' radicals (150-200), totally about 2700 characters, or better to say character-sullables, for characters are counted several times if there are several variants of transcription, he can start to retype learning materials in 'anchore' writing with manual formating of superscript indicies or even rewriting by hand, which is even more useful. This kind of exercise is to learn most used words, word use and grammar. Quickness is not a big advantage in that. 

 

At the same time the weakest point in such learning is reading. Smooth reading is not possible until one has learnt all 4,500 characters, for they are learnt by radical series, not according to frequency. However, a sort of smooth reading is possible if electronic texts are convereted to semi-anchor type, i.e. only the characters of the above 37 radicals are presented in "anchor' style (excluding some dozens of the most used, of course), while others are typed as they are. A program to do that would be really valuable. Also it should leave spaces between words, in my opinion, for better learning. Could you be interested in that?

[imron]

4 minutes ago, Pall said:

Smooth reading is not possible until one has learnt all 4,500 characters

Smooth reading is definitely possible without this many characters, and is more a function of how many words you know (not characters) and how much reading you’ve done.   10,000 words is probably a good amount for when general reading of texts is possible without too many unknown words, then you just need lots of reading practice to make it smooth. 
 

8 minutes ago, Pall said:

Could you be interested in that?

Between work, family and my own projects, I have very little free time at the moment (I barely have the time to visit the forums) so I don’t see myself taking on any outside projects in the foreseeable future. 

[Pall]

9 hours ago, imron said:

Between work, family and my own projects, I have very little free time at the moment (I barely have the time to visit the forums) so I don’t see myself taking on any outside projects in the foreseeable future.

I understand, it's a pity. Without such converted texts, which would allow to start reading after learning just 1,500-1,800 characters, the learner will be able to begin to read smoothly using this method only after he has learnt 4,500 characters, which requires about 9-12 months.

 

However, I still want others to be able to benefit from my efforts. So I prefer to retype the materials in 'anchor' semi-writing rather than rewrite them by hand. Now I'm rewriting in this mode HSK examples for words, and I'll upload them as soon as some sufficient amount of work is done. Then anyone, who have learnt 400 'anchor' characters and some 1,400-1,500 characters of very rare, unique or indistinct radicals, will be able to read these examples smoothly up to the HSK6 level.

[Pall]

I have a question for all. Is it worth to learn all characters, which relate to 27 not so rare radical, 11 not so frequent and 3 very frequent radical series, within those series (with only exeption of the most used characters like 是，他，and some others up to some 15-20 characters) if the above method is implied, or it's better to learn all characters of the level of, for example, HSK2, preliminarily? So that these characters (and words, of course, since characters are learnt according to frequency) of HSK2 are learnt in advance, and only after that 400 anchore characters (further the most rare radical characters and unique ones, basing on the knowledge of the anchore characters, still further those three parts at the same time with semi-anchor rewriting of learning materials). 

 

Or maybe HSK1 is enough for such a basis in order not to waste time and start to learn anchore characters and then the others according to the  procedure?

Edited September 6, 2020 at 04:35 PM by Pall
additional considerations

[大块头]

1 hour ago, Pall said:

if the above method is implied

 

Would you mind linking to one of your posts above where you describe your current method? There is an overwhelming amount of content in this thread. 

[Pall]

2 minutes ago, 大块头 said:

Would you mind linking to one of your posts above where you describe your current method? There is an overwhelming amount of content in this thread. 

Thank you for your advice! I should definately summerise the current approach in a new thread in much fewer words.