Possibility of American working in China with no college degree

[mackie1402]

6 hours ago, xinoxanu said:

There's no "green card" concept in China. If you get married and put on a spousal visa, but want to work, you have to forfeit the S visa and apply for a work permit instead. Usually foreigners that came to China for work and married a local never transition to an S visa, unless the partner is rich or they have a "shared" business (i.e: a restaurant) where the laowai can simply say "my wife does all the work, I just clean the dishes if the restaurant is too busy".

 

While slightly different to other western countries, China still does offer a green card. I'm in the application process myself. It takes about 6-12 months for the application process. 

 

There are a few requirements, but the basics are:

- married for 5 years

- you've spent at least 9 months of each of the last five years in China

- you freeze 150,000 rmb in a Chinese bank account for six months to prove you have funds 

- you have purchased an apartment 

 

Once you get the green card, you get a 身份证 which entitles you to everything a local can get access to, including schooling for children, health insurance and even working without having to get a working visa. 

[Flickserve]

43 minutes ago, mackie1402 said:

you have purchased an apartment 

interesting. Can you buy one in a village which is significantly cheaper than the city and use that in the criteria?

[Demonic_Duck]

49 minutes ago, mackie1402 said:

There are a few requirements, but the basics are:

- married for 5 years

- you've spent at least 9 months of each of the last five years in China

- you freeze 150,000 rmb in a Chinese bank account for six months to prove you have funds 

- you have purchased an apartment 

 

Does this mean you're basically guaranteed to get one as long as you fulfil each item on the list and are willing to jump through the bureaucratic hoops, or is it more like a bare minimum that's required to even have a chance at getting one?

 

I ask because Chinese green cards have (had?) a reputation for being as rare as 凤毛麟角, but that might be out-of-date as I know the rules have been updated in the last few years.

[abcdefg]

13 hours ago, Kenny同志 said:

Unfortunately, she does not have a bachelor’s degree. I have read that for a foreigner who wants to work in China, he must hold a bachelor’s degree or above and at least two years of work experience.

 

Is there anyone with similar experience? How do you deal with the situation? Maybe it’s possible for her to get a job without a bachelor’s degree in China after our getting married?

 

Hello Kenny, 

I have an American (male) friend in Kunming who married a local Kunming lady. He is in China on a Spouse visa and works on-line in some sort of tech support capacity for an international company that is an offshoot of Microsoft. His Chinese wife is a teacher. He has a bachelor's degree from an American university. His residence permit allows him and his wife to travel easily to nearby countries (Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Thailand, etc.) Not sure if that helps, since the situation is not exactly the same as yours. Best wishes. 

 

[Lu]

14 minutes ago, abcdefg said:

He is in China on a Spouse visa and works on-line in some sort of tech support capacity for an international company that is an offshoot of Microsoft.

Do you know if he is working legally? Or does the Chinese government just not know that this is how he spends his days and makes his money? It does sound like an ideal gig, if you can live in China and work online for a firm from your own country. (And convenient for Microsoft too, to have an employee in the opposite timezone.)

[abcdefg]

1 minute ago, Lu said:

Do you know if he is working legally? Or does the Chinese government just not know that this is how he spends his days and makes his money?

 

I'm not sure, @Lu -- Next time we chat I will try to ask him tactfully. Currently he and the wife are in the US because of Covid. 

[xinoxanu]

1 hour ago, Demonic_Duck said:

I ask because Chinese green cards have (had?) a reputation for being as rare as 凤毛麟角, but that might be out-of-date as I know the rules have been updated in the last few years.

 

Yes, my thoughts exactly. A couple years back they were handing about 20 per year, then a 100 and so on more recently... but I always thought it was a very VIP thing. I personally know someone who fulfils all those requirements (and more), has been married for 12 years IIRC and he's still on a work visa.

 

@mackie1402 can you tell us a bit more on how you initiated the process? Did you consult a professional or you just went to the related town hall office for an application form?

[mackie1402]

1 hour ago, Flickserve said:

interesting. Can you buy one in a village which is significantly cheaper than the city and use that in the criteria?

 

That I'm not too sure about. I've heard rumours that there is kind of a point based system, so the better the apartment the higher the chance of success etc, but nothing I can say is 100% true. 

 

1 hour ago, Demonic_Duck said:

Does this mean you're basically guaranteed to get one as long as you fulfil each item on the list and are willing to jump through the bureaucratic hoops, or is it more like a bare minimum that's required to even have a chance at getting one?

 

I ask because Chinese green cards have (had?) a reputation for being as rare as 凤毛麟角, but that might be out-of-date as I know the rules have been updated in the last few years.

 

My wife and I went to the PSB last week to talk about this. We mentioned the exact same thing about how online is always talking about how they are 'the worlds most difficult green card' to get. The guy at the PSB just kind of laughed it off and basically said as long as you meet all of the criteria, there isn't any reason not to get it. Apparently, the reason why the number of green cards given out every year is such a low number, is because the number of applications is also extremely low. In fact, when I applied for my spousal visa last year, the guy at the PSB even said to me "Don't forget you can apply for a green card next year!". I didn't even ask, and he reminded me about it. 

 

I was discussing this with my wife, and the conclusion we came to was this:

 

- majority of foreigners in China don't see China as their long term plan, more of a 'get a quick buck'

- majority of relationships are foreign male, Chinese female. Going by Chinese culture, the husband usually purchases the house/car. I know this isn't entirely true these days, but there are still a tonne of traditions which people follow. If a foreign husband saves up the money to buy a place, they'd probably prefer to do it in their own country. 

- most families I've met in China would prefer to send their kids to schools in their own country.

 

 

[xinoxanu]

34 minutes ago, Lu said:

Do you know if he is working legally? Or does the Chinese government just not know that this is how he spends his days and makes his money?

 

On the China side: if he gets his wages paid on a foreign bank account then no issue. Pretty common around the world and, in the end, you are just a glorified tourist that brings into the country foreign currency while not a single citizen loses its job to a laowai.

 

For the country of origin: if he pays due taxes, no problem either. Otherwise, problem.

[xinoxanu]

1 minute ago, mackie1402 said:

The guy at the PSB just kind of laughed it off and basically said as long as you meet all of the criteria, there isn't any reason not to get it.

 

Was this in Hangzhou?

[mackie1402]

9 minutes ago, xinoxanu said:

 

Was this in Hangzhou?

 

Yeah, that's right. I've always found the PSB really easy to deal with in Hangzhou. 

[Lu]

17 minutes ago, xinoxanu said:

On the China side: if he gets his wages paid on a foreign bank account then no issue. Pretty common around the world and, in the end, you are just a glorified tourist that brings into the country foreign currency while not a single citizen loses its job to a laowai.

I don't know about China, but am pretty sure that in the Netherlands you'd get in trouble if you did this for an extended period of time and the tax office finds out. After all, you enjoy the services of the local roads, hospital, schools, police etc, which are paid by local taxes, which you don't pay (because you pay taxes abroad). Of course, it's only a problem if the government finds out.

[xinoxanu]

48 minutes ago, Lu said:

1 hour ago, xinoxanu said:

On the China side: if he gets his wages paid on a foreign bank account then no issue. Pretty common around the world and, in the end, you are just a glorified tourist that brings into the country foreign currency while not a single citizen loses its job to a laowai.

I don't know about China, but am pretty sure that in the Netherlands you'd get in trouble if you did this for an extended period of time and the tax office finds out. After all, you enjoy the services of the local roads, hospital, schools, police etc, which are paid by local taxes, which you don't pay (because you pay taxes abroad). Of course, it's only a problem if the government finds out.

 

Mmmm.

 

Can the government in the Netherlands (or any country in the EU) tax you for money that a) is already taxed in origin, b) you are entirely making outside of the country and c) is deposited in a foreign account, so it's actually "never in the country"? I am going out on a limb here, but I believe that governments all over the world have "Tax residence" agreements that cover this situation, and make up for it (and then you have the US, that forces its citizens to pay taxes even if you no longer live in the country, so the other way around).

 

There are also limit caps to make sure that rich foreigners do indeed pay taxes (or none at all if they know how to network ?), but of course, the only way the government knows they are rich is because they have property that is indeed subjected to taxation while in the country, file tax returns and so on. Also, keep in mind, that even if your active income is not taxed by The Netherlands, you are already paying taxes on things like your rent, the VAT of products and services you consume and other fees (council tax, etc).

 

PS: Sorry OP, it seems I am hijacking the topic. Will limit my answers on this.

[Kenny同志]

Hi folks,

 

I am sorry I have a busy day ahead. I will come back when I am free.Thank you all again for your contributions.  ?

[Kenny同志]

I am sorry folks but I have been super busy for the past few days. I talked with my girlfriend and shared the thread with her. We have decided that she will study on job in the United States as she may not be able to come to China in the near future. She will complete the programme online and as this is very flexible, she will be able to work on the side, which I think will be a great thing.

 

When the border reopens, she may come to China and live with me for a few months every year. As the programme she intends to apply for will be an chiefly online one, she will also be able to attend the classes from China.

 

I want to say thanks a million to all of you for your contributions. Much appreciated, folks.  ?

[Flickserve]

Sounds like a good plan. All the best.

[roddy]

I do think that's by far and away the best idea. Good luck!

[Kenny同志]

Thank you for your good wishes, Flickserve and Roddy. ?