香港三部曲

[Jim]

On 4/28/2022 at 4:33 PM, Fred0 said:

垂顾

It works like 光临, gracing her with her custom. You have the last clause about right I think, it's saying that the idea she's good enough for the governor-general's daughter allows society ladies to balance that against the opprobrium of being a divorced/separated woman from the lower classes.

[Fred0]

Ah, now I see it.  I couldn't see what was being balanced. I could but I didn't trust myself.  Chinese! What can I say? It takes the courage of a lion.

 

Many thanks.

[Fred0]

她把背着鸨母向客人索取馈赠「斩白水」的这盒珠宝压在箱底，当做私蓄体己，一想到它，心中踏实。

The box of precious jewels pressed into the bottom of the chest, which, behind the back of the brothel’s madam,  she had requested from a “guest” as a “chopping white water” gift, she regarded as her private savings, so thinking about it, her mind was at ease.

 

Huang Deyun is making a special effort to appeal to her lover, Adam Smith, who appears to be estranging himself from her. So she gets out this head piece which was given to her by a a guest during the time she was working as a prostitute- perhaps the first guest she entertained, who deflowered her.  I have tried to find a reference to the meaning of 斩白水. I see that it is listed in slang dictionaries, but I can't find the actual meaning.  Where can one look up such a thing? 

 

Also, please correct my translation, as needed.

[Insectosaurus]

According to this website it's basically additional money charged by a prostitute from her client. Or are you asking what it's called in English? If so, perhaps one of the translators in here might be of more help!

[Fred0]

Thank you, and thank you for introducing me to this website. It looks very useful.

[Jim]

On 5/26/2022 at 6:20 PM, Fred0 said:

Also, please correct my translation, as needed.

The 把 means she's putting it there, I think, as the comma later makes it link with 压 rather than 当做; and then also you should do something with the 一 in 一想:

 

She tucked the the box of jewellery she had extracted as gifts from her clients without madam knowing down in the bottom of the chest; it was to be her personal nest-egg and whenever she thought of it, her mind felt at ease.

 

I wonder if 斩白水 is somehow a Three Kingdoms reference as 白水关 was one of the key passes guarding the way into Ba-Shu in Sichuan so maybe the idea of getting past the woman's defences of (performative if she's a sex worker) modesty. Not that I can find any evidence for that, only similar definitions to that one Insectosaurus posted.

[Fred0]

Can anyone tell me what has happened to thhe Chinese dictionary website that I used to  access as zdic.net. This page no longer opens. It has been a very useful resource. It included Chengyu, archaic, and colloquial expressions. Where could I find that or an equivalent site?

 

Now it has reappeared? Closed for service update?

Edited June 9, 2022 at 07:24 PM by Fred0

[Jim]

Working for me too just but with a lot more adverts that I noticed before. Otherwise functionality appears the same on a quick look-up.

[Fred0]

It turned out that I had to add an extention to Safari to get it to work for zdict.net. Called Webex. I don't understand what it does, but I see all the ads Jim mentions. fortunately they disappear with ad block on Safari.

[Fred0]

This article by by Rong Xiaoqing in the NY Times China News Briefs addresses the recent story about four women being beaten up by a group of men in a restaurant in China. Here the discussion is about why bystanders did not intervene, and the assertion by netizens that it would be different in the US.

 

在美国，路人出手的机会总体来说似乎的确较高，至少因为法律相对健全，人们不太会有中国人常有的“好心做善事却被倒打一耙”的顾虑。在中国，为陌生人两肋插刀是算互殴、见义勇为还是正当防卫，法律界定似乎非常模糊，更让人们担心一出手相助就后患无穷。

 

In America, generally speaking it appears to be more likely that one would take the opportunity to help a stranger,

 

       ---I have translated the sentence in this was because it makes more sense, but as the sentence is written it seems to be saying:  “In America the opportunity to help a stranger is greater...”  Where am I going wrong?

 

at least, it is because (good samaritan?) laws are rather well-established, so people are not so apt to have the apprehension that one would feel in China that one would “righteously do a good deed and then just get in trouble for it.”

 

In China, to treat a stranger as like a friend whom you would lay down your life for, (when confronted with) people fighting, seeing what is just and bravely confronting the issue, is regarded as a reasonable defense.

 

       --- This is the best I can do with this sentence. Where have I gone wrong?

 

The law being very vague, makes people even more apprehensive that if they were to help someone it would just lead to endless trouble.

 

       ---Please address any other misunderstandings in the translation.

[Publius]

On 6/23/2022 at 12:20 AM, Fred0 said:

在美国，路人出手的机会总体来说似乎的确较高

I think it's not your fault. The right word is 几率 (probability). 几率 collocates with 高.

 

On 6/23/2022 at 12:20 AM, Fred0 said:

在中国，为陌生人两肋插刀是算互殴、见义勇为还是正当防卫，法律界定似乎非常模糊，更让人们担心一出手相助就后患无穷。

在中国 => adverbial

 

为陌生人两肋插刀是算互殴、见义勇为还是正当防卫 => an indirect question:

whether 为陌生人两肋插刀 is regarded as 互殴(ordinary fistfight) or 见义勇为(good samaritan) or 正当防卫(right of self-defense/defense of others)

 

(对此)法律界定似乎非常模糊 => subject + predicate

 

(这)更让人们担心一出手相助就后患无穷 => which makes people even more...

[Fred0]

Yes, 几率 makes it all make sense.

 

And thank you so much for parsing the second sentence.  It's so clear when it's finally clear. 

[Fred0]

In this very dramatic scene, Adam Smith is appearing at his prostitute/concubine's house for the last time, after listening at a dinner party to a lecture by a visiting dignitary about how inferior the "yellow races" are to the white ones.

 

晚宴回来，史密斯最后一次到跑马地成合坊的唐楼，已过半夜，拳头落在门板打得砰砰声，黄得云以为海盗上岸抢劫，吓得失了主意，抱住三弦，往床下就要钻。一只冰冷的手掐入她后颈，连衣带人给拎了起来。怀中三弦坠地，啌啷一声，三根弦齐齐断了，来不及摸黑去捡，整个人被抛到床上，在黑暗中惊吓的眼睛，瞎子一样睁着。　

 

　「不准看我，把脸转过去。」　　

 

连说带动作，揿住她的脖颈折断一样拗过去，也不脱衣，就长驱直入。黄得云又惊又喜抱住他的手被粗暴的拨掉。史密斯哑声嘶吼：　　

 

「恨你、恨死你、恨你这黄色婊子！看我毁了你！毁了你！

 

一边吼一边朝黄得云的脸上吐唾沫。

 

1. What is the meaning of 连衣带人?

 

2. The best I can do with 连说带动作 is to read it as "to join action with speech," or to put what he has said in words into action..." Is this perhaps a set phrase of some kind？

 

3. I understand 长驱直入 as saying eupheistically that he rapes her. Is that correct?

 

4. Maybe I'm being picky, but in the sentence 黄得云又惊又喜抱住他的手被粗暴的拨掉, shouldn't there be a comma between 住 and 他? Otherwise it seems to be saying that she held his hand and pushed it aside roughly.

 

Thanks.

[Jim]

1. 连...带... is a set formula, here it means clothes and person both, i.e. he grabs the scruff of her gown and lifts her bodily by it.

2. This is the same formula again, one thing happening along with another, here being him setting about what he intends to do even as he speaks.

3. It's a military term for unimpeded advance, so here it's saying he enters her without even taking her clothes off. Not sure if there's any pun intended with the 长 but the 入 would think has surely been chosen because it implies penetration.

4. I'd say not, as I read it as meaning she clasps the hand/arm he's gripping her with but then he roughly pulls her hands away.

[Fred0]

On 10/22/2022 at 10:26 AM, Fred0 said:

黄得云又惊又喜抱住他的手被粗暴的拨掉。

 

So it shoud be read as 黄得云又惊又喜抱住他的手，(他）被粗暴的拨掉。？ What, besides the sense of it, tells you that the subject is changing from her to him?

 

Thanks for teaching me about 连。。。带。。。. Very useful! Where would I look up this kind of set formula?

[Jim]

On 10/23/2022 at 5:24 PM, Fred0 said:

What, besides the sense of it, tells you that the subject is changing from her to him?

She's still the subject isn't she? The 被 says it's happening to her. So to follow the Chinese more closely, she clasps his hand in surprise and delight but has her embrace roughly pulled away. 

[EnergyReaper]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:24 AM, Fred0 said:

 

So it shoud be read as 黄得云又惊又喜抱住他的手，(他）被粗暴的拨掉。？ What, besides the sense of it, tells you that the subject is changing from her to him?

The trick is to notice 的 before a noun, so the subject is 手. Whose 手? Of course it's her 手. 黄得云 used her 手 to hold him. Then literally you can translate "黄得云又惊又喜抱住他的" as an adjective clause or use a better way.

[Fred0]

On 10/23/2022 at 7:40 PM, Jim said:

The 被 says it's happening to her.

Of course. Now I see.  I suppose it's better to read all the words in the sentence. Many thanks for sticking with me.

 

On 10/23/2022 at 9:12 PM, EnergyReaper said:

The trick is to notice 的 before a noun

This is also very helpful. Thank you.

[Jim]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:07 AM, Fred0 said:

I suppose it's better to read all the words in the sentence.

 This is a bold strategy! It can be easy to skim past these things, especially in a complicated sentence like this.