Tomsima Posted October 4, 2020 at 03:40 PM Report Posted October 4, 2020 at 03:40 PM the ts- and the q- both represent the same sound; but is romanisation a step too far? the characters are on the bottle, maybe people should just cut out the middle man and learn how to pronounce 青島? 2 Quote
杰.克 Posted October 4, 2020 at 05:58 PM Report Posted October 4, 2020 at 05:58 PM On 10/4/2020 at 3:19 PM, Demonic_Duck said: I love the elegance and parsimony of pinyin as much as the next filthy commie, and I agree the older Romanization systems are ugly and clunky by comparison. Expand Best sentence in this thread! Quote
Guest realmayo Posted October 5, 2020 at 07:17 AM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 07:17 AM Consider the beer a useful reminder that there's linguistic value to be found in encountering alternative romanisation schemes . It was only after I learned Wades-Giles (useful for old books - and way more sophisticated!) that realised I needed to make some tweaks to my 普通话 pronunciation. Also, the number of people who can read pinyin but can't read Chinese characters is probably too niche for the beer company to consider changing its branding.... Quote
roddy Posted October 5, 2020 at 08:03 AM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 08:03 AM On 10/4/2020 at 3:19 PM, Demonic_Duck said: you'll have a hell of a time convincing English speakers that "Qingdao" is actually the exact same word as "Tsingtao". Expand Also, for the English-speaking market at least, I suspect you'll get a lot closer to the actual pronunciation with 'ts' than 'q'. Edit: Also, Qing Dao? Bold to insist on pinyin and then completely ignore capitalisation and spacing conventions... Quote
amytheorangutan Posted October 5, 2020 at 08:47 AM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 08:47 AM I feel like this is deliberate for branding and marketing purposes that they don’t change the spelling. There are a few big brands from where I grew up that were established a long time ago and when we had spelling change in the 70s they kept the old spelling I guess to show that they’re old and established and also for nostalgia reason. Though honestly I also find the old spelling irks me, because I learn pinyin and my brain just hates inconsistency. Quote
roddy Posted October 5, 2020 at 08:57 AM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 08:57 AM You guys need to relax. Sit back, pour yourself a small glass of Kweichow Moutai and light a Chunghwa cigarette. 2 Quote
Guest realmayo Posted October 5, 2020 at 09:54 AM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 09:54 AM On 10/5/2020 at 8:57 AM, roddy said: You guys need to relax. Sit back, pour yourself a small glass of Kweichow Moutai and light a Chunghwa cigarette. Expand ... and pray you don't come across any Chinese companies using traditional characters in their PRC branding.....! Quote
杰.克 Posted October 5, 2020 at 10:07 AM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 10:07 AM On 10/5/2020 at 8:57 AM, roddy said: You guys need to relax. Expand Don't worry, be hoppy Quote
imron Posted October 5, 2020 at 10:36 AM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 10:36 AM On 10/4/2020 at 3:20 PM, Jim said: What about Green Island? Expand And if that doesn’t work, you can also then try blue or black. Quote
Jan Finster Posted October 5, 2020 at 11:01 AM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 11:01 AM As a German, I prefer Zingtao (edit: actually "Zingtau"). Pronounced as "Tsingtao" for English people (not English "z" as in "zoo"). It is originally German, isn't it? So, we should have a say in it ?? 2 Quote
Jim Posted October 5, 2020 at 01:54 PM Report Posted October 5, 2020 at 01:54 PM On 10/5/2020 at 10:36 AM, imron said: And if that doesn’t work, you can also then try blue or black. Expand I was thinking it would offer a chance for endless debate among drinkers but I looked at the Baidu page and apparently the original island was noted for its luxuriant foliage green all year round so it's not so ambiguous as usual. Was also hoping there might be some peculiar local way of pronouncing the name but it seems the Qingdao dialect is fairly standard in the matter of their own name, they veer off piste in other vocabulary items. 1 Quote
PerpetualChange Posted October 6, 2020 at 02:50 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 02:50 PM Having sat on a call recently where coworkers were discussing the new cybersecurity laws banning technology from Huawei, Hanzhou, Dahua, etc., I have to say that I think you may have forgotten how you yourself would have thought pinyin sounded before your Chinese classes began. Those pre-pinyin renderings may not be perfect, but I think they were closer to the mark than a lot of people realize, and all it takes it hearing someone saying "Hanne Zoo" and "Da Hoo-ey" a few times to remind oneself just how intuitive they really were, or perhaps rather, how unintuitive pinyin is. Quote
Jim Posted October 6, 2020 at 03:11 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 03:11 PM Or all those friends off to visit the Terracotta Army in Cheyenne. 1 Quote
889 Posted October 6, 2020 at 04:16 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 04:16 PM Pysht! Ever listen to Chinese try to pronounce Western place names? One Bydgoszcz is worth a dozen Chongqings. Quote
Demonic_Duck Posted October 6, 2020 at 04:39 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 04:39 PM On 10/6/2020 at 2:50 PM, PerpetualChange said: how unintuitive pinyin is Expand From an anglocentric view, sure, but it's not designed to represent the sounds of English. Calling it unintuitive is like complaining that "qu'est-ce que c'est" isn't spelled "kes ke say". If anything, the un-English-like spelling should be a good hint that the pronunciation also won't be English-like. The problem is that people often don't learn even an approximation of the correct pronunciation, and also that there's some misinformation flying around. A common example is "x" being pronounced /ʒ/, which isn't even a pronunciation an English speaker would naturally guess. For their part, Huawei used to (maybe still do?) prescribe that their name should be pronounced /ˈwɑːweɪ/ in English. 1 Quote
xinoxanu Posted October 6, 2020 at 04:56 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 04:56 PM Since we are at it... I don't mind Pinyin at all and actually is not a bad phonetic representation of the language, except for the "c" sound which I strongly think should be represented by "ts" instead. Romaji beats Pinyin though. Quote
Demonic_Duck Posted October 6, 2020 at 06:21 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 06:21 PM On 10/6/2020 at 4:56 PM, xinoxanu said: I don't mind Pinyin at all and actually is not a bad phonetic representation of the language, except for the "c" sound which I strongly think should be represented by "ts" instead. Expand Waste of letters, plus the sound isn't even used at the start of syllables in English, so it'd be a weird choice to base it on English. Also like every Slavic language with a Latin-based alphabet already uses "c" for /t͡s/. 1 Quote
xinoxanu Posted October 6, 2020 at 06:32 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 06:32 PM On 10/6/2020 at 6:21 PM, Demonic_Duck said: Waste of letters, plus it's not even used at the start of syllables in English, so it'd be a weird choice to base it on English. Expand Bold of you to assume that my statement is based on English phonetics ? Quote
Lu Posted October 6, 2020 at 07:22 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 07:22 PM On 10/6/2020 at 4:56 PM, xinoxanu said: except for the "c" sound which I strongly think should be represented by "ts" instead. Expand But then you lose the s-sh c-ch z-zh logic. 1 1 Quote
xinoxanu Posted October 6, 2020 at 07:38 PM Report Posted October 6, 2020 at 07:38 PM Oh, I am sure 周有光 and those who reviewed the system afterwards had their reasons to choose this or that letter -I won't pretend to know better than them. Although... @Lu and other professionals in the language field: leaving logic aside, do you feel that "c" is better than "ts" to represent that sound? Quote
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