Can not differentiate 攵 = rap, tap & 夂 = go, walk slowly

[Sreeni]

I failed to differentiate between these 2 radicals multiple times.
攵Radical 66: rap, tap

 夂 Radical 34: go, walk-slowly 

 

The rap radical is taller and the line extends beyond the edge

 

go radical width is more and edges are aligned.

Is there any other easy way to differentiate these two?

 

[Guest realmayo]

I would suggest finding a guide for how to write them both correctly, and then write them out a few times - one has four strokes, the other has three. That means they can be written to look completely differently to one another:

  

政 (攵)

 

各 (夂)

 

 

[Sreeni]

Thanks for your explanation, it helped to distinguish the 2 characters, while writing.

 

Do you have any word with 夂 zhǐ, where it does not have some other character just below? (各 here kǒu is at bottom of zhǐ)

 

Do you have any word with 攵pū where it had some character just below (or top)?

 

regarding writing stroke order what is the significance in the computer key board Age? Shall we write with minimum strokes possible even right to left or bottom to top whatever the order, if that makes character writing faster? Why we want to make Chinese writing further complex?

[889]

"Regarding writing stroke order what is the significance in the computer key board Age?"

 

You're nonetheless going to be sometimes reading hand-written Chinese; indeed some fonts are based on handwritten styles. And you'll even be writing Chinese by hand at times.

 

If you don't understand and follow stroke order, then cursive forms will be a barrier to you.

 

It's just like pronunciation: you need to get it down right from the start, because changing once you're set in your ways is very difficult.

[Guest realmayo]

Sreeni, do you mind me asking - are you using a textbook or a tutor or something else to learn the language, as well as the characters? Because studying Chinese characters is a little bit like studying "a", "b", "c": even if you know "a" to "z", you still won't be able to understand English until you start learning all the other stuff too.

 

[Sreeni]

I am using 9 th standard Chinese Simplified textbook , Pleco dictionary, Google translator and hacking Chinese website to learn how to learn a new language mainly vocabulary.

 

my intention is only read and understand Chinese simplified from printed textbooks and webpages some times. Not cursive forms as such.

 

when I am writing vocabulary in my notebook, I write the characters in whatever I felt is fast and easy. For example 口 kou,  I write it in 1 or 2 stroke( not 3 strokes).

[Sreeni]

Notes is something like

[Sreeni]

3 hours ago, Sreeni said:

Do you have any word with 夂 zhǐ, where it does not have some other character just below? (各 here kǒu is at bottom of zhǐ)

 

Do you have any word with 攵pū where it had some character just below (or top)?

@realmayo could you pls help with this?

 

I want to assume, if 攵this word has nothing at bottom, it is rap/tap. If it has some thing at bottom it is 夂 zhǐ.

[Guest realmayo]

 

7 minutes ago, Sreeni said:

I want to assume, if 攵this word has nothing at bottom, it is rap/tap. If it has some thing at bottom it is 夂 zhǐ.

 

夂 almost always has another component above or below it.

攵 almost always is on the right-side of a character

 

If you're going to be writing Chinese, even if just in a notebook, I think it's best to follow the traditional stroke order. It shouldn't take long to learn, and I believe it will help you remember the characters more easily. But I don't know how to explain why I think it will help.

[Sreeni]

@realmayoThanks, I will check the stroke order in Pleco and follow the same. there will be some benefits definitely as you mentioned it is easier to remember character and almost every body is following.

[Demonic_Duck]

The basic rules of stroke order are a really efficient thing to learn in terms of time expenditure vs usefulness, especially in the computer age. If you know stroke order, you can use any touchscreen device to easily look up a character without knowing its pronunciation. But if you get the stroke order wrong, your input method probably won't understand what you're trying to write.

[889]

Though to be fair, Pleco doesn't seem dependent on stroke order.

[Sreeni]

整  zhěNg. Orderly, neat : came across thru this word today. I can identify the character in it as  攵and not 夂.

here 正 is below, it is below the entire 敕, not just the one character   攵.

[Sreeni]

15 hours ago, realmayo said:

f you're going to be writing Chinese, even if just in a notebook, I think it's best to follow the traditional stroke order. It shouldn't take long to learn, and I believe it will help you remember the characters more easily. But I don't know how to explain why I think it will help.

when I was learning my native language as a kid , the teacher used to say where to start and where to end a character. We had doubts as kid on the sequence of writing. Had starting problems. Once we learnt to build on, improve on we forgot the sequence , I think. The writing order is common to any language.thanks for reminding me the importance of writing order

[imron]

On 2/9/2021 at 12:36 AM, Demonic_Duck said:

But if you get the stroke order wrong, your input method probably won't understand what you're trying to write.

This is true of older handwriting input methods, but not true of modern ones. For example, on my phone I can write 你 completely backwards - not just stroke order but also stroke direction, and it still gets it correct (same as other characters too).  See here for technical details. 

[Sreeni]

敏 mǐn quick. As per Pleco dictionary this is Rap, Tap radical. 

@OneEye outlier dictionary mentioned that this has come from other radical foot. You have given some reference Wang, Li dictionary. Can you confirm which radical it is?

 

 

[OneEye]

It was originally 夂 but became corrupted over time and is now written 攵.

 

By the way, the 王力 reference is about the meaning of the character, while the form explanation is based on 黃德寬《古文字譜系疏證》.