Memories of a Geisha

[gougou]

According to this Independent article, movie fans in China will have to wait longer for the release - if it's going to come about at all...

[deezy]

I don't understand the problem of a chinese actress playing a very traditional japanese role

Well, does the "Rape Of Nanking" ring a bell? The war crime human atrocities the Japanese committed against China in WWII stunned even a local Nazi, John Rabe. So, this would be akin to Jewish actors playing all the Nazi roles in "Memoirs of a Nazi." Except, Germany has gone a long ways towards acknowledging and apologizing for their WWII past - whereas the Japanese haven't.

And from the Japanese perspective, real geishas were enraged that Arthur Golden & Hollywood had again replaced reality with inaccurate Western Orientalist fantasies of the East - portraying geishas as automartyring borderline prostitutes overly-devoted to their client-men (listen from 70:06 on). When in fact, most were highly-professional, highly-refined/cultured, independent, performance artisans where sex never entered the picture. And from an actor's perspective - first they cast a White guy as a samurai, and now Chinese women as geishas?

So sure, if you just want to plead ignorance and enjoy these flicks for the pleasant scenery, that's understandable. But anyone who is capable of taking it at more than face value will also understandably get offended.

We, here in Greece, love to see quality chinese movies.

I suggest you watch films made in China by Chinese, then.

[yingguoguy]

I saw this as well last week, and read the book a few years ago.

The book, as I recall was one half melodrama and one half discussion of geisha culture. While I enjoyed the movie a lot, it was nearly all melodrama, with very little interest in the cultural side of things. I remember seeing the director describe it as 'fantasy' somewhere and not to be taken too seriously. That's fine, I don't expect a Hollywood blockbuster to be anything other than fun.

So this is not a critisism as such, just an observation, that the geisha had been seriously Westernized. The costumes were far too flowing, there was no blackening of teeth, the geisha spent as much time out of the white facepaint as possible and as the Yahoo article above mentioned the dance was very 'modern'. Geisha also have very traditional and submissive body language, which was missing as well.

I understand why this has been done, as, for me and I suspect most Westerners, geisha aren't sexy. Exotic and delicate maybe, but not actually sexy and Hollywood has to have sexy. So I guess it isn't really a question of whether Chinese actresses can play Japanese, as the film had no interest in making them authentically Japanese. So it's understandable that the Japanese complained about them not taking their culture seriously. While American/Austalian/British actors do play different nationalities I seem to remember Alexander being panned last year for Colin Farrel being far too blonde and far too Irish for a Macedonian. King Authur came in for similar critisism for taking far too many liberties with the myth.

It seems to me that many Chinese also dislike Zhang Ziyi already for having sold out to the west. A few people have told me that Crouching Tiger, House of Flying Daggers etc. are too western for Chinese tastes.

P.S.

I only like her (Zhang Ziyi) when she gets mad.

Yes she's like a reverse Incredible Hulk isn't she. Gets very cute when she's angry.

[ioannis]

deezy, yingguoguy

you are both right and I am trying to understand your mentality better

I don't take Holywood too seriously anyway.

And if Japanese are offended with their culture being hacked by hollywood, what can I say about Alexander the Great, Troy and so many other Greek history/mythology movies, which are nauseating to say the least. This is far worse to me than a Greek actress playing a Turkish role

deezy, if you want to suggest good chinese films, I am all ears

[Battosai]

I don’t think there is anything immoral about Chinese actresses playing Geishas but I don’t intend on watching it.

I find the whole thing just too weird , Zhang Ziyi playing an English speaking Japanese...

Imagine a Chinese rendition of Victor Hugo’ s ‘Les Miserables’ with an all Russian cast speaking Mandarin….just too weird…

[yingguoguy]

According to this Independent article, movie fans in China will have to wait longer for the release - if it's going to come about at all...

Here in Smalltown, China, we don't have a cinema, but there's already a copy in the local DVD store, next to "I Spit on Your Grave"

[roddy]

So, this would be akin to Jewish actors playing all the Nazi roles in "Memoirs of a Nazi."

A good, an over-dramatic Nazi / Hitler analogy. Every topic should have one.

It's not as if Zhang Ziyi is dressed up as a Japanese officer rampaging around Nanjing. If you want to draw an analogy like this (and frankly an analogy involving Nazis or Hitler rarely clarifies any issue) then it's like a Jewish actress playing a German serving-girl in 1930s Beijing, which would not even be worthy of mention.

[td36285n]

After watching this movie, I've become more confused about what goes on inside the mind of a woman. So it's not about money, but about love?

Hollywood, why do you tease us so???

[Lu]

I don’t think there is anything immoral about Chinese actresses playing Geishas but I don’t intend on watching it.

I find the whole thing just too weird ' date=' Zhang Ziyi playing an English speaking Japanese...

Imagine a Chinese rendition of Victor Hugo’ s ‘Les Miserables’ with an all Russian cast speaking Mandarin….just too weird…[/quote']I couldn't agree more. I'm not going to watch it.

[geraldc]

Films and entertainment are always a mixture.

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was written by a white American in English, based on existing Chinese stories, translated into Mandarin and then delivered by a couple of actors whose first dialect is Cantonese. A Hong Kong actor speaking Cantonese in a period drama set in Bejing is just as valid/accurate as a Chinese actor speaking English in a western movie. Films are all about compromises.

There have always been actors from Japan and Korea in Chinese movies, it's just most of the time they're dubbed into chinese so no one notices.

My favourite piece of casting was Yul Brynner in the king and I. A Russian raised in China who went to America and then played the King of Siam singing in English.

Acting is all about suspension of disbelief. The musical Les Miserables has toured all round the world, and they localize the language, in the UK they sing in English,that plus the fact that some of the members of the cast are black makes it less "authentic" but does it make it any less entertaining?

As long as people don't wear prosthetics and make up to play roles of other races, I don't mind.

Many of you have complained about how Chinese aren't willing to accept non Chinese speaking Chinese, and now there are a large number of people not willing to accept Chinese playing other nationalities due to "authenticity", it works both ways.

[ioannis]

At least the movie is not dubbed.

So, even though you hear english spoken, at least you hear the voices of the actresses and not somebody else's voice.

[deezy]

ioannis - Unfortunately, I'm not a movie buff, so you might want to get a more qualified response elsewhere! And I definitely hear ya about Hollywoodization of Greek culture. It's ridiculous - I about laughed myself when I saw Brad Pitt and Colin Farrell recently starring in those Greek epics.

If you want to draw an analogy like this (and frankly an analogy involving Nazis or Hitler rarely clarifies any issue) then it's like a Jewish actress playing a German serving-girl in 1930s Beijing, which would not even be worthy of mention.

The point was that there are still strong nationalist divisions between Japan and the neighboring countries it unapologetically decimated in WWII - like China & Korea. So, although these ethnicities might seem interchangeable based solely on appearance, politically - they may still be separated by huge chasms. And unlike Germany, which has gone a long way towards salving wounds and repairing relations with Jews, Japan has actually tried to cover up its abusive past with its victims. Hence, the wounds still fester in those victimized countries today.

So it's not about money, but about love?

Hollywood, why do you tease us so???

Lol, in popular cinema, the woman always falls in love with a poor artistic type...then waffles with a socially-acceptable (rich) type...then breaks their engagement at the last minute to return to her first star-crossed "true love." ...Like...clockwork!

Of course, real life is a whole 'nother ballgame!

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was written by a white American in English

Actually, it was a joint effort by Hui-Ling Wang, James Schamus & Kuo Jung Tsai based upon a book by Du Lu Wang...

[geraldc]

What do people think about Madame Butterfly? Japanese and American characters singing Italian...

[ioannis]

deezy,

Point taken. The emotional tensions between these two cultures are understandable.

I just hope that art (cinema in this case) can ease the tensions, not broaden the chasm.

This is the moral role of art, if you will.

[流]

I think the fact that a Geisha being played by a Chinese actress sparking such a reaction shows how long we have to go in society.

Yes, the Japanese military did unfathomably terrible things in WWII, which no one can deny (other than obviously crazy people like Shintaro Ishihara). And yes, there are constant signs that Japan does not regret it’s role in WWII (such as Koizumi going Yasukuni, electing Shintaro Ishihara as mayor of Tokyo, and many other signs).

However, it has been more than 60 years. Not that justifies the actions, but when German actress preformed in Troy, there were no enraged people (to my knowledge).

First of all, it is Hollywood! The name of the game is tricks and lies; deception. Hollywood has never been historically accurate, and that was never it’s intention! It is purely for entertainment value!

PLUS, the movie is (mostly) in ENGLISH! If it were in Japanese, it might be a different story (unless the actresses could speak Japanese; then I would not care)!!

[td36285n]

Not that justifies the actions, but when German actress preformed in Troy, there were no enraged people (to my knowledge).

The Greek and Trojan soldiers were played by Hungarians and Mexicans. When everybody is tanned and has a helmet, it's pretty difficult to tell who is who anymore.

[carlo]

They should have cast Monica Bellucci. She's dark haired, and most male audiences would have accepted her even if she played King Kong.

[ioannis]

Yes, Monika Belluci can play any role. She could be a samurai.

Anyway, I think the 3 chinese actresses were very pretty and played very well.

I knew the 2 from Tiger and Dragon, I didn't know Li Gong (spelling?)

I was surprised to read that the producers could not find a japanese actress that would meet their criteria (I don't know if I believe that).

[atitarev]

I watched the movie tonight and enjoyed it very much. The nationality of actresses is not even worth dicussing, IMHO.

Imagine a Chinese rendition of Victor Hugo’ s ‘Les Miserables’ with an all Russian cast speaking Mandarin….just too weird…

I don't like this sarcasm. Good acting, good and interesting story, getting the right impression about the culture, that's what counts. "Les Miserables" was rendered in Russia, it was a great movie in my opinion. E.g. the Russian rendition of Sherlock Holmes movies was considered one of the best by some Western movie experts. Sorry, no link.

[skylee]

I didn't know Li Gong (spelling?)

Gong Li was the leading actress of memorable films like 紅高粱, 秦俑, 菊豆, 秋菊打官司, 大紅燈籠高高掛, 活着 and 霸王別姬. I think she was THE diva of the mainland cinema before Zhang Ziyi came along ...