How to pronounce the right tones subconsciously when speaking?

[Fithen]

I’ve found that unless I consciously focus on my pronunciation, it isn’t very accurate.

 

I have memorized the proper tones for almost all the words I know - reading a script aloud while keeping them in mind gives an accurate pronunciation for the most part.

 

However, if I’m speaking spontaneously and not “pre-pronouncing” the word in my head, all this goes to waste and tone accuracy is much lower. While the limiting factor might just be the very low amount of speaking practice I get because of my geographical location, I’d really appreciate any tips for brushing up pronunciation accuracy subconsciously - like when speaking in your native tongue.

[Moshen]

It's hard to get all the tones right when you are thinking in terms of word by word rather than of a whole sentence.  There's not enough brain time to remember the correct tone for each word when you're stringing them together into a novel sentence.

 

I recommend you find some whole sentences that you might want to say in conversation and practicing them as if they were a line of music - that is, the whole sequence going up, down and around in a certain way.  The more you can get those correct, the more you'll be correct in actual speaking, with new sentences you've never said.  The key is patterns, not individual words.

[alantin]

To extend a little bit on what @Moshen said: Shadowing. A lot of it.
 

https://www.fluentu.com/blog/language-shadowing/

https://howtogetfluent.com/shadowing-for-language-learning/

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/60363-shadowing-and-recording-most-effective-method/?tab=comments#comment-472074

 

[杰.克]

On 10/31/2021 at 10:42 AM, Moshen said:

It's hard to get all the tones right when you are thinking in terms of word by word rather than of a whole sentence

 

Agreed. Its really hard to pick this up, and it takes time. Although tones are related to the single characters and words, a native makes them flow in a sentence. 

[889]

But in conversation you've got someone else there who should be speaking right. Listen to his voice not yours. And over time your tones should start to match his, because saying Bēijīng will begin to sound really weird.

[Tomsima]

Shadowing.

[杰.克]

As soon as you can move away from the blocky stacatto beginner pronouncing every word as a single entity, the better! Its hard to do, but it comes over time, as Tomsima and 889 said, spend time talking to natives and copy them.

[mungouk]

When you do your flashcard reviews of vocabulary, use software that includes native speaker audio. 

 

Soon you will internalise how the tones sound in your "mind's ear", as part of learning the word. 

 

 

 

[Fithen]

On 10/31/2021 at 12:17 PM, alantin said:

To extend a little bit on what @Moshen said: Shadowing. A lot of it.

I've been trying this recently, though I'm not sure whether to go for "blind shadowing" where I just repeat after audio only, or non-blind where there's a text that I can simultaneously read off. Which would you suggest?

 

Currently, I've been "blind shadowing", and it's been quite difficult, even for easy texts where I know all the words. This might just be because of lack of practice, but if I'm approaching it the wrong way, please let me know.

On 11/1/2021 at 8:56 AM, 杰.克 said:

spend time talking to natives and copy them

Unfortunately, I have near-zero opportunities to interact with native speakers where I am located. 

[alantin]

On 11/1/2021 at 10:33 PM, Fithen said:

I've been trying this recently, though I'm not sure whether to go for "blind shadowing" where I just repeat after audio only, or non-blind where there's a text that I can simultaneously read off. Which would you suggest?

I definitely recommend having transcript of the audio and using it to get it right. Otherwise you'll hear something completely wrong and practice that. Especially the tones and initials can be tricky.

[TaxiAsh]

On 10/31/2021 at 10:42 AM, Moshen said:

It's hard to get all the tones right when you are thinking in terms of word by word rather than of a whole sentence.  There's not enough brain time to remember the correct tone for each word when you're stringing them together into a novel sentence.

I remember learning (from somewhere in here about not looking at pinyin and tones), rather learn the word with the tones. (e.g. 熊猫 which was I think the first introduction to tones on yoyo chinese last year!) At that time and until I saw this advice, I was thinking of xiong mao, then trying to remember the tones. Better to just learn the word as xiong2mao1.

 

However, all said and good... tone changes, in particular 3rd tones combinations, I find most difficult. 

(but I should say , my level of Chinese is way lower than most of you guys, so you've probably overcome by now this current speaking issue for me)

[杰.克]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:33 PM, Fithen said:

Unfortunately, I have near-zero opportunities to interact with native speakers where I am located. 

 

Italki, Tandem, Hello talk etc etc

 

Lots of opportunities to interact with native speakers online

[889]

As I've said before here, I think intellectualizing too much about tones hurts rather than helps. Concentrate on saying words just like native speakers do and don't think too much about which tones you're using.

[Tomsima]

I would argue the advice should probably be: do think about tones, consciously, every study session. Record yourself, listen to minimal pairs and try to distinguish. Always be thinking about the tones until your brain starts to hear them when listening to Chinese people talking. Once you can hear the tones clearly, you can let go a bit and stop thinking so much about it - your brain has finally started listening for the tones without you forcing it to.

[Flickserve]

To me, this is a staged process.

 

General - listening to native Chinese at different speeds.

 

basic - targeted tone practice and minimal pairs, check the sound of the tones in a dictionary. Somehow you need feedback which is recording or having someone listen 

 

shadowing - use short sentences for blind shadowing. These sentences you already know the words so the next step is to shadow them and get used to the tones and intonation.
 

Listen to the native speaker recording. If you are at the fairly beginner stage, it seriously helps to have auto loop on the recording of sentence about ten times before you start to try to speak along with the recording. Just to let you know, you may have to listen to a single sentence 100 times or more with your shadowing - shadowing became easier once you realise that.

 

One day, you’ll be talking to a native Chinese speaker and in one of the sentences, they’ll say “wow, that sounds really native”. That happened for me when I said “多儿钱?“ which I had shadowed from a TV program. I felt so happy that day ?. BTW, most of my speaking is with people on italki. 
 

[Mia0]

Definitely hear you. To add onto what's already here, something that has been helping me is finding native Chinese actors whose voices feel like a comfortable match to imitate -considering both vocal range and characters' expressiveness.

 

The LLN Language Learning with Netflix free chrome extension is great for non-blind practice this way with pinyin, characters, plus English/your selected learning-from language